Does anyone else feel that the Wii has been a terrible disappointment?

[Jonbo298]

I initially had high hopes for the Wii too but it's fading. Even though I had to sell it for financial reasons awhile back, I've had no urge to want to buy it now that I'm financially able to. Re-purchasing a 360 I've used pretty steadily. I think alot of it has to do with online playing. Wii is stuck in the past when it comes to online whereas everyone seems to be online now.

At some point I may get another one when the price drops (one can laugh at that comment), but as it stands my $220 or so (thank you Dell and Slickdeals) investment in hte 60 gig 360 is getting it's value.

[BreakABone]

Two things, I figured this would be the perfect post to debut my new sig since so many of you called me out on it.

Second, I hope to not force opinions on people if you don't like a game I won't force feed it I hope.

And not a number, but my better natural couldn't keep me from giving this a legit reply.

Originally Posted by Dylflon

The whole motion sensor thing has proven to be just as gimmicky as I thought it would be pre-launch. The only time I've had fun using motion controls in a game is with Wii Sports. I've been underwhelmed by pretty much every game that has motion controls (with the exception of Galaxy).

I can understand that, a great deal of games on the Wii use motions in such terrible ways or as simple replacements for buttons. Those are the worse uses of motions in my opinion.

I will say there are a ton of games that use it well in the context of the games:
-I think Godfather Blackhand Edition makes good use of motion controls and actually improves it (I've played the Xbox and PC version) It also adds a layer of visceral to the game that is not replicable on other consoles or even PCs.
-I've used it in the past as an example as a great concept in a meh game, but Medal of Honor Heroes 2 makes great use of the Wii-mote in both controls (aiming and strafing and all that fun jazz) and in making guns feel unique. Something I wish more games carried over. You use the chuck to pump a shotgun, you hoist the wii-mote on your shoulder to use the bazooka and you twist a knob on your sniper wth the Wii-mote. It's the little things that really adds up in my opinion.
-Then there is the other use I've grown fond of which is using Wii-mote gestures for finishing moves in games like No More Heroes and Deadly Creatures. I mean it doesn't add much to the gameplay, but it is a cool feature when the motions mimick the action to some degree.

And there has been an incredible lack of games for this system that I'd be even slightly interested in playing.

Well, like I said I won't force opinions on you, but there are a ton of great games IMO across the Wii and the WiiWare service.

So essentially what I have is a system dedicated to the sole purpose of playing Smash.

And is there a problem with that?
I got an Xbox as a dedicated Halo player.
I got my Cube for Melee.
As long as you have a single game that warrants you keeping the console, I think its a win. There are a ton of side project games that work just as well.

And I will admit to the fact that after Brawl/Kart, the Wii's lineup has been pretty lackluster for the past year or so, but I really think things are picking up this year.

From what I played Madworld will be awesome, and The Conduit should turn out to be a solid affair. There's the new TMNT game in the vein of Turtles. A new Punch-Out, Sin and Punishment 2, more rail shooters (which have seen a revival on the Cube), there's the new Final Fantasy which actually looks quite interesting, and some WiiWare stuff that looks pretty swank.

I know BAB will argue with me extensively in a moment but this is just how I feel.

Ask and your wish shall be granted.

Originally Posted by Bond

I 100% agree.

Oh come on, at least add something to the discussion.

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I always thought the motion sensor was a gimmick, and I am unimpressed with the overall feel of the system aswell.

I don't know if the motion controls are gimmicks, they have their places. I just feel like no one has used them well, and I feel that MotionPlus will only help further segment the fanbase.

There aren't any good games that utilize the motion sensor bar in a way that not only makes it new, but fun.

I will respectfully disagree with that.
I think BoomBlox is a great example of a game that uses motion controls, feel new and is a ton of fun.
I would say the same with Lost Winds even though its a WiiWare game.
deBlob is awesome, but I know that could be done on other consoles.

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

I've discussed this several times with BaB and I know he disagrees with me. But I've played through most of the killer apps, and there's not much on the horizon. Nintendo seems to assume that if they're gonna make a good platformer, they have to make a new Mario game. Or if they're gonna make a good adventure game, they have to make a new Zelda game. On the other hand, everybody always bitches about getting the franchises rehashed over and over again. I would love to see Nintendo start making new unique platforming and adventure games.

You know the thing with this is.. you just don't decide to make a new game and it pops out. Since the start of this generation, Nintendo has released
-Super Mario Galaxy
-Zelda: TP
-Prime Corruption
-WarioWare
-Super Paper Mario
-Brawl
-Kart Wii
-Endless Ocean
-Wii Play
-Wii Sports
-Wii Fit
-Excite Truck
- Mario Party 8
-Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
- Pokémon Battle Revolution
- Mario Strikers Charged
-Donkey Kong Barrel Jam
-Battalion Wars 2
-Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
-Link's Crossbow Training
-Mario Super Sluggers
-Wario Land: Shake It!
-Wii Music
-Animal Crossing.

Now I won't sit here and argue the merit of any of those games, some are awesome, some shouldn't even exist, but the fact is Nintendo hasn't been a slouch when it came to releasing games this generation. It may be difficult for people when there is a streak of lesser/casual affairs, but there is a ton of variety in that list and some really hidden and underrated gems.

Nintendo needs to seriously reevaluate their development planning system. They're wasting their creative ability on disappointing games. They continue to focus on quick-play titles that are fun in the short term, but do not leave a lasting impression and do not satisfy in the same way a game where time investment offers a sense of accomplishment.

This is all a personal opinion really. Wii Sports and Wii Play are probably the two most bought and played games on the console so they are doing something right in that regard.

For people like you and I, and I assume everyone else on these forums, that won't be enough.

And the thing is, I felt that 3rd parties should have been filling in the gaps, but they spent the bulk of 07 convincing themselves that the Wii was not gonna last, it was nothing but a fad so they didn't support it. 08 was spent with quick cash-ins to try and gather some of that fanbase and we got shitted on, short and simple. Nothing but cheap cash-ins with some really terrible ideas not even executed well.

I mean there is a Redneck Triathatlon game or some shit like that, and I only know because I frequent GameStop often.

This year though looks like there will be a revival of those games on the Wii. Sega is leading the charge with House of the Dead, Sonic and the Black Knight, Conduit and Madworld.

EA has announced extreme support, but we shall see what comes of it.

Then there are people who just kind of give lip service, I like Capcom a great deal. I really do. But there Wii support thus far has consisted of ports of RE, a rail shooter that ties the REs together and a terrible, awful, should not exist port of Dead Rising.

At some point, people have to realize it doesn't take much to make a good Wii game, but that doesn't mean we need their off-branded BS. I mean Castlevania becomes a fighting game and Soul Calibur becomes an adventure game... WTF indeed.

Originally Posted by Dylflon

I played House of the Dead Wii yesterday and am willing to admit that it was an example of fun use of wii motion controls. Also I had forgotten about Boom Blox.
But I stand by my point aside from those two exceptions.

So we are already at 4 games for you or so. Not bad.
Then there is a Boom Blox 2 later this year.
And Dead Space extraction would be similar in vein to House of the Dead.

[Thespis721]

Word.

[thatmariolover]

Alright, a different angle. The things about the Wii that disappoint me.

1) Terrible Online Implementation:

a) Different friend codes for every single game.

b) No proper voice chat until very recently.

c) No ability to patch ANYTHING (more on this later).

2) Storage (or lack thereof).

a) 512 MB of flash memory, 177 MB of which are taken up by system software to date (more on this later). That's 35% of your storage stolen up before you even boot on your console for the first time.

b) Nintendo is scared of what you would do with a hard drive, so they won't let you use one. But even if they did release one (or let us use our own), you wouldn't be able to use it to load or save on games released before the HDD was sold (see the issues with the Wii OS).

3) Software (Operating System):

a) To date, there's already 23 different versions of IOS installed. Any time Nintendo wants to add a feature, they have to release a new version of IOS, but it also contains all of the data of the previous IOS. This is because anytime a game is launched, it accesses the appropriate version of IOS it was intended to be run with (partially an ass-backwards security measure). This includes any updates to the WiiConnect24 downloads code, and even some minor things like the “slot LED blinks when you eject a disc” feature - try it when you’re playing Zelda and you’ll see that it doesn’t work, because it’s using the very old IOS9. As I mentioned earlier, Nintendo's already whittled down 177 MB of the system's 512 MB flash memory with this crappy system.

b) Many of the drivers that Nintendo might want to update later, can't be updated. Why? Because they're not loaded from the OS, they're loaded from the disc of the game you're playing. Specifically, SD card drivers and the Bluetooth drivers. So, no VOIP for you on older games. There's no way to add it after the game's been shipped. So while Microsoft and Sony can continue bugfixing and adding new features or even expansions to their games, the Wii is going to be the exact same as it has been pretty much since day one. The only thing they can really update is the menu. After you've launched a game, there's nothing it can do.

4) Software (Games):
I already gave my opinions on this. We will agree to disagree, BaB.

5) Nintendo's attitude.

a) Nintendo never does anything wrong.

b) If they're making money, there's no need for improvement.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

Alright, a different angle. The things about the Wii that disappoint me.

1) Terrible Online Implementation:

a) Different friend codes for every single game.

b) No proper voice chat until very recently.

c) No ability to patch ANYTHING (more on this later).

2) Storage (or lack thereof).

a) 512 MB of flash memory, 177 MB of which are taken up by system software to date (more on this later). That's 35% of your storage stolen up before you even boot on your console for the first time.

b) Nintendo is scared of what you would do with a hard drive, so they won't let you use one. But even if they did release one (or let us use our own), you wouldn't be able to use it to load or save on games released before the HDD was sold (see the issues with the Wii OS).

3) Software (Operating System):

a) To date, there's already 23 different versions of IOS installed. Any time Nintendo wants to add a feature, they have to release a new version of IOS, but it also contains all of the data of the previous IOS. This is because anytime a game is launched, it accesses the appropriate version of IOS it was intended to be run with (partially an ass-backwards security measure). This includes any updates to the WiiConnect24 downloads code, and even some minor things like the “slot LED blinks when you eject a disc” feature - try it when you’re playing Zelda and you’ll see that it doesn’t work, because it’s using the very old IOS9. As I mentioned earlier, Nintendo's already whittled down 177 MB of the system's 512 MB flash memory with this crappy system.

b) Many of the drivers that Nintendo might want to update later, can't be updated. Why? Because they're not loaded from the OS, they're loaded from the disc of the game you're playing. Specifically, SD card drivers and the Bluetooth drivers. So, no VOIP for you on older games. There's no way to add it after the game's been shipped. So while Microsoft and Sony can continue bugfixing and adding new features or even expansions to their games, the Wii is going to be the exact same as it has been pretty much since day one. The only thing they can really update is the menu. After you've launched a game, there's nothing it can do.

4) Software (Games):
I already gave my opinions on this. We will agree to disagree, BaB.

5) Nintendo's attitude.

a) Nintendo never does anything wrong.

b) If they're making money, there's no need for improvement.

Agreed.

I was about to post about some of this stuff as well, but no need.

I'm mostly just disappointed in nintendo. I'm sad faced.

I haven't turned on my Wii in a very long time.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

Alright, a different angle. The things about the Wii that disappoint me.

1) Terrible Online Implementation:

a) Different friend codes for every single game.

b) No proper voice chat until very recently.

c) No ability to patch ANYTHING (more on this later).

2) Storage (or lack thereof).

a) 512 MB of flash memory, 177 MB of which are taken up by system software to date (more on this later). That's 35% of your storage stolen up before you even boot on your console for the first time.

b) Nintendo is scared of what you would do with a hard drive, so they won't let you use one. But even if they did release one (or let us use our own), you wouldn't be able to use it to load or save on games released before the HDD was sold (see the issues with the Wii OS).

3) Software (Operating System):

a) To date, there's already 23 different versions of IOS installed. Any time Nintendo wants to add a feature, they have to release a new version of IOS, but it also contains all of the data of the previous IOS. This is because anytime a game is launched, it accesses the appropriate version of IOS it was intended to be run with (partially an ass-backwards security measure). This includes any updates to the WiiConnect24 downloads code, and even some minor things like the “slot LED blinks when you eject a disc” feature - try it when you’re playing Zelda and you’ll see that it doesn’t work, because it’s using the very old IOS9. As I mentioned earlier, Nintendo's already whittled down 177 MB of the system's 512 MB flash memory with this crappy system.

b) Many of the drivers that Nintendo might want to update later, can't be updated. Why? Because they're not loaded from the OS, they're loaded from the disc of the game you're playing. Specifically, SD card drivers and the Bluetooth drivers. So, no VOIP for you on older games. There's no way to add it after the game's been shipped. So while Microsoft and Sony can continue bugfixing and adding new features or even expansions to their games, the Wii is going to be the exact same as it has been pretty much since day one. The only thing they can really update is the menu. After you've launched a game, there's nothing it can do.

4) Software (Games):
I already gave my opinions on this. We will agree to disagree, BaB.

5) Nintendo's attitude.

a) Nintendo never does anything wrong.

b) If they're making money, there's no need for improvement.

Most of these are technical arguements which honestly I don't disagree with, on the same hand doesn't really hinder my experience.

Is it a pain in the ass to have seperate friend codes for every game? you bet your ass, but I take it over no online games from them.

Only point I will disagree with and we went over this on AIM, is Nintendo making money need no improvement. I don't agree with it.. you don't agree with it... but at the end of the day... that's what business is about making money. They have an audience who appreciates what they are doing. It's a pain in the ass to sit on the sidelines at times.

I felt the Wii's library lacked any oomph for serious gamers post-Kart until the start of this year, but there were games coming out. Just nothing most average posters would be interested in.

[capablemachine]

I have a Wii and the library is pretty dismal, that being said the libraries on the PS3 and 360 aren't much better.

[Bube]

Originally Posted by capablemachine

I have a Wii and the library is pretty dismal, that being said the libraries on the PS3 and 360 aren't much better.

I agree with you. A while back I would've said that we were growing out of a hobby, but looking at the "best games of recent times", I can't help notice that there's just no improvement in the industry. It's just the same things we've been playing since the N64/PSX days.

Games were better back then, because they were original. And now, with our schedules getting busier by the day, and life becoming harder, we don't have as much time as we used to have for games, so we automatically go for games that we know we'll like. We're afraid to try new stuff, both for this reason, and the fact that games are expensive.

I'm thinking of Mirror's Edge here, a game that was very original, but every review mentioned that it was too short, and that it wasn't worth the price because of that..

I've said this before, but I feel that the 360 is best console this generation for a few reasons. The PS3 still hasn't taken off IMO. And the Wii is probably in full flight, but for the family, not the dedicated gamers themselves, unfortunately..

[Thespis721]

I am in full support of Nintendo and their ways. Not because I'm some suped up Nintendo fanboy. I'll admit, I have more 360 games then I do Wii.

But the way I see it, you have to understand that Nintendo ISN'T Sony and it ISN'T Microsoft, which are these heavy tech companies who have their dirty mits in all sorts of electronics departments including computers, TVs, DVD players, toaster ovens, whatever...

What I'm trying to say is that Nintendo is providing you a sole gaming console, not an entertainment center. They aren't trying to link their system with their other electronics gadgets and help sales in other departments. SONY and Microsoft didn't make massive amounts of money off the gaming world, even if they won the last generation but their industry market controls other areas that Playstation and XBOX help boost. Nintendo makes their money solely from games. And it works.

That is my longwinded defense of Nintendo not having the best technical grasp of the situation (friend codes, patching, memory, fear of hacking). it's like your grandpa making your video games. His stories are great and once you sit down with him, you realize how much of an amazing person he could be, but he doesn't know how to turn on a computer.

I love my Wii. But I accept it for what it is. A game console.

[KillerGremlin]

The rebuttle I promised, <3.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I will say there are a ton of games that use it well in the context of the games:
-I think Godfather Blackhand Edition makes good use of motion controls and actually improves it (I've played the Xbox and PC version) It also adds a layer of visceral to the game that is not replicable on other consoles or even PCs.

The Wii version is getting a 77% on gamerankings, which while better than the competition, still isn't floor dropping. (http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9343...ion/index.html)

Originally Posted by BreakABone

-I've used it in the past as an example as a great concept in a meh game, but Medal of Honor Heroes 2 makes great use of the Wii-mote in both controls (aiming and strafing and all that fun jazz) and in making guns feel unique. Something I wish more games carried over. You use the chuck to pump a shotgun, you hoist the wii-mote on your shoulder to use the bazooka and you twist a knob on your sniper wth the Wii-mote. It's the little things that really adds up in my opinion.

It's getting a 75% on gamerankings (http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9420...-2/index.html).
It's still not a great game. In fact Medal of Honor is about as generic as FPS gaming can get. Not to sound snobby, but in the huge amount of PC games I have played I have found games that have made guns feel "unique." What you enjoy about the Wii controls sounds gimicky, and it sounds like it would be a pain in the ass to execute in multiplayer . That's my opinion of course.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

-Then there is the other use I've grown fond of which is using Wii-mote gestures for finishing moves in games like No More Heroes and Deadly Creatures. I mean it doesn't add much to the gameplay, but it is a cool feature when the motions mimick the action to some degree.

No More Heroes 83% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...oes/index.html
Deadly Creatures 73.5% - http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.h...reatures&site=

Oh, one good game and one average game.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

And is there a problem with that?
I got an Xbox as a dedicated Halo player.
I got my Cube for Melee.
As long as you have a single game that warrants you keeping the console, I think its a win. There are a ton of side project games that work just as well.

This is why there are 3 consoles and people are dumb for shelling out cash for them. The cost of a console does not justify one, two or even three games. I got my Xbox for Halo/Halo 2/SSX3/Jet Grind Radio/Panzer Dragon/Racing Titles/Etc.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

more rail shooters (which have seen a revival on the Cube)

I disagree. Panzer Dragoon Orta and Starfox 64 are two awesome rail shooters. They were both A+ titles, they didn't rely on gimmicky as fuck controls, and in case you missed them you should go play them.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I will respectfully disagree with that. I think BoomBlox is a great example of a game that uses motion controls, feel new and is a ton of fun. I would say the same with Lost Winds even though its a WiiWare game. deBlob is awesome, but I know that could be done on other consoles.

Boom Blox 85.2% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9419...lox/index.html

LostWinds 80% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9450...nds/index.html

de Blob 81.5% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9419...lob/index.html

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Now I won't sit here and argue the merit of any of those games, some are awesome, some shouldn't even exist, but the fact is Nintendo hasn't been a slouch when it came to releasing games this generation. It may be difficult for people when there is a streak of lesser/casual affairs, but there is a ton of variety in that list and some really hidden and underrated gems.

I'll argue with numbers, as Mario once said, "Here we go!"

Super Mario Galaxy 97.28% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9156...axy/index.html

Zelda: TP 94.5% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9285...ess/index.html
(interesting to note, TP got a slightly lower score on Wii than cube)

Metroid Prime 3: Corruption 89.64% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9285...ion/index.html

Warioware 82.13% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9329...ves/index.html

Super Paper Mario 85.09% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...rio/index.html

Brawl 92.87% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9285...awl/index.html

Kart 81.80% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9420...wii/index.html

Endless Ocean 73.245% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9355...ean/index.html

Wii Play 61.10% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9355...lay/index.html

Wii Sports 76.56% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...rts/index.html

Wii Fit 80.83% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9420...fit/index.html

Excite Truck 75.25% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...uck/index.html

Mario Party 8 - 63.35% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9355...y-8/index.html

Big Brain Academy 69.25% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9355...ree/index.html

Pokemon Battle Revolution 53.44 - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9340...ion/index.html

Mario Strikers Charged - 79% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9351...ged/index.html

Donkey Kong Barrell Blast 44.56% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...ast/index.html

Batallion Wars 2 75.03% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9351...s-2/index.html

Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn 78.98% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9329...awn/index.html

Link's Crossbow Training 69.54% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9432...ing/index.html

Mario Super Sluggers 69.55% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9458...ers/index.html

Wario Land: Shake It! 78.15% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9465...-it/index.html

Wii Music 63.53% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9509...sic/index.html

Animal Crossing 74.25% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9331...olk/index.html

Here you go BaB, my rebuttle. HARD numbers from LOTS of reviews. What do you see? Hopefully the same thing as me. The games that got scores generally above 85% are Nintendo franchise titles.

Oh yeahhhhhh, repeat after me: Nintendo's "innovative" and "original" titles have been very average. Nintendo is scraping by making Zelda and Mario titles.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

This is all a personal opinion really. Wii Sports and Wii Play are probably the two most bought and played games on the console so they are doing something right in that regard.

Marketing psychology? Wii Sports was a fun diversion for a couple of weeks, in fact I still enjoy Wii Golf. Does it justify the purchase of said console? ehhh....but hey, look at the reviews again, Wii Sports/Play were received lukewarmly.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

For people like you and I, and I assume everyone else on these forums, that won't be enough.

How about everyone who shelled out hard earned cash on the Wii.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

And the thing is, I felt that 3rd parties should have been filling in the gaps, but they spent the bulk of 07 convincing themselves that the Wii was not gonna last, it was nothing but a fad so they didn't support it. 08 was spent with quick cash-ins to try and gather some of that fanbase and we got shitted on, short and simple. Nothing but cheap cash-ins with some really terrible ideas not even executed well.

I think it is a two-way street more than you know. I know Sony and M$ were out there trying to get 3rd party support. The proof is in the pudding, and by pudding I mean the new generation graphic/cpu. Something the Wii does not have.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

This year though looks like there will be a revival of those games on the Wii. Sega is leading the charge with House of the Dead, Sonic and the Black Knight, Conduit and Madworld.

Sonic is your great redeemer? You are setting yourself up for disapointment.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

EA has announced extreme support, but we shall see what comes of it.

*looks at Wii Play/Wii Sports review

Anyway, just some thoughts.......

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Thespis721

I am in full support of Nintendo and their ways. Not because I'm some suped up Nintendo fanboy. I'll admit, I have more 360 games then I do Wii.

But the way I see it, you have to understand that Nintendo ISN'T Sony and it ISN'T Microsoft, which are these heavy tech companies who have their dirty mits in all sorts of electronics departments including computers, TVs, DVD players, toaster ovens, whatever...

What I'm trying to say is that Nintendo is providing you a sole gaming console, not an entertainment center. They aren't trying to link their system with their other electronics gadgets and help sales in other departments. SONY and Microsoft didn't make massive amounts of money off the gaming world, even if they won the last generation but their industry market controls other areas that Playstation and XBOX help boost. Nintendo makes their money solely from games. And it works.

That is my longwinded defense of Nintendo not having the best technical grasp of the situation (friend codes, patching, memory, fear of hacking). it's like your grandpa making your video games. His stories are great and once you sit down with him, you realize how much of an amazing person he could be, but he doesn't know how to turn on a computer.

I love my Wii. But I accept it for what it is. A game console.

So you are saying the Xbox360 and the PS3 exist to help sell Sony and Microsoft toasters? I don't buy it.

I don't buy the argument that Nintendo is reluctant to embrace things like online gaming either. It is because they are stubborn. Online gaming has been around for a long time, it is called a personal computer. The fact of the matter is there is nothing fancy about online gaming, Nintendo just makes it seem so by perpetuating basic technology ignorance.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Is it a pain in the ass to have seperate friend codes for every game? you bet your ass, but I take it over no online games from them.

You are a dedicated Nintendo fan .

Originally Posted by capablemachine

I have a Wii and the library is pretty dismal, that being said the libraries on the PS3 and 360 aren't much better.

I, like Bube, also agree. I think this generation of gaming has been fairly lackluster compared to past generations. Lots of sequels, lots of First Person Shooters.

BaB disagrees with me, but I think part of it has to do with the fact that now that we are 3D, where do we go?

[BreakABone]

Sweet, we get fun with numbers.

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

The Wii version is getting a 77% on metacritic, which while better than the competition, still isn't floor dropping. (http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9343...ion/index.html)

I never said it was floor dropping, I said it was an improvement. In essence, if the core game is average, improved controls will only go so far.

But here are some excerpts from the lower scoring reviews:
The Wii version holds up graphically, but its ailing gameplay makes it the worst entry yet.
Gameinformer 6.7

The controls are an interesting hook. Actually slugging it out with your targets by swinging the Wii Remote and nunchuk is fun, and the shooting elements are handled well by making the pointer aspect of the Remote a "precision targeter," rather than your sole firearms control. Lock on, and then you can move the targeting reticule with the Wii Remote for a level of precision shooting that is very slick. Fist fighting gets old quickly, but it's also not a very efficient play style, so don't worry about that. Executions get dull much less quickly when you physically slap the Wii Remote to the side to deliver the slap before you smash a spine under your boot. Compared to a traditional gamepad, I can't imagine wanting to play the game on anything but a Wii control setup.
GameSpy 3.5 out of 5

Also of note is an intelligently-conceived Wiimote control method that enhances an already decent combat system and improves on it. Wii Sports-style boxing techniques are the centrepiece of hand-to-hand combat (though the throttling is fun too) while an IR-based free targeting solution adds greatly to the gunplay - useful for headshots, kneecappings and disarming enemies.
EuroGamer 70

Point is, the Wii controls does improve the game, but at its core its a poor man's GTA.

It's getting a 75% on gamerankings (http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9420...-2/index.html).
It's still not a great game. In fact Medal of Honor is about as generic as FPS gaming can get. Not to sound snobby, but in the huge amount of PC games I have played I have found games that have made guns feel "unique." What you enjoy about the Wii controls sounds gimicky, and it sounds like it would be a pain in the ass to execute in multiplayer . That's my opinion of course.

I have gone on record several times to state that I know the game is average in every other way, but it proves the potential for FPSes on the Wii especially when done well.

The Conduit will hopefully be a better example when it is released, but from what I played its a solid effort.

And I don't think its so much gimmicky as it is trying something new. Sure, it hardly adds to the game, but it adds to your own immersion or at least it did for me.

No More Heroes 83% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...oes/index.html
Deadly Creatures 73.5% - http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.h...reatures&site=

Oh, one good game and one average game.

Well, I didn't know we based the quality of a game solely on review scores. Of the reviews I read for Deadly Creatures, they all state its a solid game with some flaws. Doesn't make it average, makes it a work in progress. And you won't find another game like it on any console as far as I know.

This is why there are 3 consoles and people are dumb for shelling out cash for them. The cost of a console does not justify one, two or even three games. I got my Xbox for Halo/Halo 2/SSX3/Jet Grind Radio/Panzer Dragon/Racing Titles/Etc.

I happen to own all 3 consoles and no less than 5 games for each of them. So its not like I don't expand my library, but I don't see an issue with getting a console for a single game and then reaching out from there.

I disagree. Panzer Dragoon Orta and Starfox 64 are two awesome rail shooters. They were both A+ titles, they didn't rely on gimmicky as fuck controls, and in case you missed them you should go play them.

So you name 2 rail shooters in the last 12 years or so?
While the Wii is already home to about 3 really good ones, and ports of some arcade classics.

And none of the rail shooters on the Wii rely on gimmicks unless I'm missing something. So if you don't mind expanding on that.

Boom Blox 85.2% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9419...lox/index.html

LostWinds 80% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9450...nds/index.html

de Blob 81.5% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9419...lob/index.html

Not even sure if this was a disagreement or just a way to post more scores. You don't have to rebutt all points if you don't disagree?

I'll argue with numbers, as Mario once said, "Here we go!"

Super Mario Galaxy 97.28% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9156...axy/index.html

Zelda: TP 94.5% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9285...ess/index.html
(interesting to note, TP got a slightly lower score on Wii than cube)

Metroid Prime 3: Corruption 89.64 - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9285...ion/index.html

Warioware 82.13% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9329...ves/index.html

Super Paper Mario 85.09% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...rio/index.html

Brawl 92.87% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9285...awl/index.html

Kart 81.80% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9420...wii/index.html

Endless Ocean 73.245% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9355...ean/index.html

Wii Play 61.10% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9355...lay/index.html

Wii Sports 76.56% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...rts/index.html

Wii Fit 80.83% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9420...fit/index.html

Excite Truck 75.25% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...uck/index.html

Mario Party 8 - 63.35% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9355...y-8/index.html

Big Brain Academy 69.25% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9355...ree/index.html

Pokemon Battle Revolution 53.44 - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9340...ion/index.html

Mario Strikers Charged - 79% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9351...ged/index.html

Donkey Kong Barrell Blast 44.56% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9330...ast/index.html

Batallion Wars 2 75.03% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9351...s-2/index.html

Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn 78.98% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9329...awn/index.html

Link's Crossbow Training 69.54% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9432...ing/index.html

Mario Super Sluggers 69.55% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9458...ers/index.html

Wario Land: Shake It! 78.15% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9465...-it/index.html

Wii Music 63.53% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9509...sic/index.html

Animal Crossing 74.25% - http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/9331...olk/index.html

Here you go BaB, my rebuttle. HARD numbers from LOTS of reviews. What do you see? Hopefully the same thing as me. The games that got scores generally above 85% are Nintendo franchise titles.

I see the numbers, but a general flaw in your arguement I would stress is that most games are viewed from the perspective of what people dubbed "hardcore" (god I hate those terms) gamers.

Yeah, it may be making excuses but the fact that Wii Play or Wii Fit or even the Wii sells hundreds of thousands a month shows that reviews have little impact on people. And more importantly,they are not always a proper barometer for what people will enjoy.

I won't even bother reading the reviews nor will I defend all the games on the list, but I'm pretty sure if you go through the list a bunch of the reviews will state:
-Has iffy graphics.
-Shallow gameplay with no real purpose
-Lacks content

As reasons for the low score, some people don't realize that the average person doesn't have 50 hours to pour into an RPG nor would it satisfy them if it did.

This generation has screwed things up because everyone believes bigger is better. Its why the Xbox and PS3 get the bulk of the 3rd party support, but go to any gaming website and watch the news as studio after studio either goes under or is sold off because they can not keep up with the ballooning cost of making these "epic" games that everyone craves.
That's another rant for another day.

Oh yeahhhhhh, repeat after me: Nintendo's "innovative" and "original" titles have been very average. Nintendo is scraping by making Zelda and Mario titles.

Nintendo is making more from their Wii line than they do from Zelda and Mario. Just watch the NPD to see Wii Fit or Wii Play run circles around those games. Is it something, I'm necessarily happy about?

No, but it does give Nintendo more money and more time to focus on their big games.

Sunshine is my least favorite of the 3D Mario games, and I feel its because Nintendo took up the policy during the Cube era of releasing a game when they said so. Galaxy was released over a year after intended and the quality shines through. The reason is that Nintendo was not hurting for the sales boost.

And its a bit early in the year, but I expect we will hear a lot more about their IPs this year, and I am certain they will shine like they have never shined before.

Marketing psychology? Wii Sports was a fun diversion for a couple of weeks, in fact I still enjoy Wii Golf. Does it justify the purchase of said console? ehhh....but hey, look at the reviews again, Wii Sports/Play were received lukewarmly.

Wii Sports is a fun diversion for people like us.
We crave new games. Hell, I have a gaming library that is ever expanding and I know I will never be able to catch-up but I need the next big thing.
But there are people out there who could get by on one or two games year.
Wii Sports also happens to be the ultimate gateway game, its something simple enough for anyone to learn, but if you try you can truly become an expert at some of the games.

I went on my little tangent about reviews before, but while they may have been reviewed lukewarmly. They are the best two selling games of the generation.

Compare it to games like Halo 3 or GTA IV or Mass Effect or Uncharted or Little Big Planet. They all were marketed well. All reviewed well, but they were a flash in the pan this generation.

They sold hot (and that isn't always the case with these games) for the first month than sank faster than the stock market.

At the end of the day, Bungie found its freedom only to make more games for MS. They are opening a new studio to help with the development of Mass Effect 2 because it got too big.

How about everyone who shelled out hard earned cash on the Wii.

There are a ton of games on the Wii that I won't touch nor you, but there is a market for them.
Games like Order Up or Cooking Mama. The Rabbids series sells well. We Ski. The list goes on, sure you will find some reviews, but once again these aren't games made for the old-time gamers.

And I'm happy for that, we need games to appeal for all people.

I've said my piece about the Wii's line-up near the end of 08, but this is 09 and it is already off to a much better start.

I think it is a two-way street more than you know. I know Sony and M$ were out there trying to get 3rd party support. The proof is in the pudding, and by pudding I mean the new generation graphic/cpu. Something the Wii does not have.

MS and Sony don't have to continue to fight an uphill battle. While games come and tank on both consoles all the time, no one ever pulls their games don't sell to the userbase crap on those consoles.

And while Wii software (both first and third party) has outsold the PS3 and Xbox since like Oct of last year, people will still insist games don't sell on the Wii.

And if not that, 3rd parties will say the Wii isn't for the hardcore gamer or it wouldn't appeal to the audience.

Of course, it is easy to keep that image alive when no one wants to release a game on the Wii on the caliber of their 360 or PS3 counterparts.

Just look at friggin Dead Rising, they dropped the zombies to hell and released the game only a mere 3 years after the original. It won't sell well or at least I pray it doesn't then people will point their fingers and dub it evidence that games don't sell on the Wii.

That and like I mentioned before, people picked their pony at the start of this generation. It is coming back to bite them severely in the ass, but they don't want to confess up to it. Instead they want to pour more money into making the next game even more impressive.

Sonic is your great redeemer? You are setting yourself up for disapointment.

4 games.. and you pick out 1... 4 games...

*looks at Wii Play/Wii Sports review

Anyway, just some thoughts.......

Not surehow Wii Play and Wii Sports are comparable to EA's lineup.
Tiger Woods gets solid reviews. Boom Blox as you pointed out yourself is doing well. While most won't agree with it, Dead Space being a rail shooter may work in its favor on the console. I'm sure the EA Tennis game will do really well. Etc....etc...

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Sweet, we get fun with numbers.


I never said it was floor dropping, I said it was an improvement. In essence, if the core game is average, improved controls will only go so far.

But here are some excerpts from the lower scoring reviews:
The Wii version holds up graphically, but its ailing gameplay makes it the worst entry yet.
Gameinformer 6.7

The controls are an interesting hook. Actually slugging it out with your targets by swinging the Wii Remote and nunchuk is fun, and the shooting elements are handled well by making the pointer aspect of the Remote a "precision targeter," rather than your sole firearms control. Lock on, and then you can move the targeting reticule with the Wii Remote for a level of precision shooting that is very slick. Fist fighting gets old quickly, but it's also not a very efficient play style, so don't worry about that. Executions get dull much less quickly when you physically slap the Wii Remote to the side to deliver the slap before you smash a spine under your boot. Compared to a traditional gamepad, I can't imagine wanting to play the game on anything but a Wii control setup.
GameSpy 3.5 out of 5

Also of note is an intelligently-conceived Wiimote control method that enhances an already decent combat system and improves on it. Wii Sports-style boxing techniques are the centrepiece of hand-to-hand combat (though the throttling is fun too) while an IR-based free targeting solution adds greatly to the gunplay - useful for headshots, kneecappings and disarming enemies.
EuroGamer 70

Point is, the Wii controls does improve the game, but at its core its a poor man's GTA.

Not disagreeing. Just saying, I wouldn't buy it for the controls alone.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I have gone on record several times to state that I know the game is average in every other way, but it proves the potential for FPSes on the Wii especially when done well.

The Conduit will hopefully be a better example when it is released, but from what I played its a solid effort.

And I don't think its so much gimmicky as it is trying something new. Sure, it hardly adds to the game, but it adds to your own immersion or at least it did for me.

Potential, maybe. PC > Console for FPS, and yes I'm a prick for saying that.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Well, I didn't know we based the quality of a game solely on review scores. Of the reviews I read for Deadly Creatures, they all state its a solid game with some flaws. Doesn't make it average, makes it a work in progress. And you won't find another game like it on any console as far as I know.

Fair enough, I'm mostly just nitpicking with review scores but I think it's a fair index.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I happen to own all 3 consoles and no less than 5 games for each of them. So its not like I don't expand my library, but I don't see an issue with getting a console for a single game and then reaching out from there.

i guess...

Originally Posted by BreakABone

So you name 2 rail shooters in the last 12 years or so?
While the Wii is already home to about 3 really good ones, and ports of some arcade classics.

And none of the rail shooters on the Wii rely on gimmicks unless I'm missing something. So if you don't mind expanding on that.

Porting arcade classics is gimmicky. Anyway 4 more recent rail shooters I can think of are Metal Slug, Ikaruga, Rez and Pokemon Snap.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Not even sure if this was a disagreement or just a way to post more scores. You don't have to rebutt all points if you don't disagree?

I'm just posting for sake of everyone else

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I see the numbers, but a general flaw in your arguement I would stress is that most games are viewed from the perspective of what people dubbed "hardcore" (god I hate those terms) gamers.

Yeah, it may be making excuses but the fact that Wii Play or Wii Fit or even the Wii sells hundreds of thousands a month shows that reviews have little impact on people. And more importantly,they are not always a proper barometer for what people will enjoy.

I won't even bother reading the reviews nor will I defend all the games on the list, but I'm pretty sure if you go through the list a bunch of the reviews will state:
-Has iffy graphics.
-Shallow gameplay with no real purpose
-Lacks content

As reasons for the low score, some people don't realize that the average person doesn't have 50 hours to pour into an RPG nor would it satisfy them if it did.

This generation has screwed things up because everyone believes bigger is better. Its why the Xbox and PS3 get the bulk of the 3rd party support, but go to any gaming website and watch the news as studio after studio either goes under or is sold off because they can not keep up with the ballooning cost of making these "epic" games that everyone craves.
That's another rant for another day.

I'm not going to completely disagree with your point. But it goes both ways. I assume that migth also be the reason why people bought a Wii, enjoyed Wii sports for a month, and now their Wii sits and collects dust. I've heard this from many people so....

Also, for a hardcore gamer...bigger often is better. Did we not have an argument, "has Nintendo alienated the hardcore gamer?"

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Nintendo is making more from their Wii line than they do from Zelda and Mario. Just watch the NPD to see Wii Fit or Wii Play run circles around those games. Is it something, I'm necessarily happy about?

No, but it does give Nintendo more money and more time to focus on their big games.

Sunshine is my least favorite of the 3D Mario games, and I feel its because Nintendo took up the policy during the Cube era of releasing a game when they said so. Galaxy was released over a year after intended and the quality shines through. The reason is that Nintendo was not hurting for the sales boost.

And its a bit early in the year, but I expect we will hear a lot more about their IPs this year, and I am certain they will shine like they have never shined before.

It would be cool if Nintendo made a new franchise besides Zelda or Mario. And Wii stuff doesn't count. Maybe one day.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Wii Sports is a fun diversion for people like us.
We crave new games. Hell, I have a gaming library that is ever expanding and I know I will never be able to catch-up but I need the next big thing.
But there are people out there who could get by on one or two games year.
Wii Sports also happens to be the ultimate gateway game, its something simple enough for anyone to learn, but if you try you can truly become an expert at some of the games.

I went on my little tangent about reviews before, but while they may have been reviewed lukewarmly. They are the best two selling games of the generation.

Wii Sports is fun. Wii Play was totally unnecessary. They fill a certain "niche." Especially when it comes to social gaming. For hard gaming though, they fall short (except for golf...oh man i love that shit).

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Compare it to games like Halo 3 or GTA IV or Mass Effect or Uncharted or Little Big Planet. They all were marketed well. All reviewed well, but they were a flash in the pan this generation.

They sold hot (and that isn't always the case with these games) for the first month than sank faster than the stock market.

At the end of the day, Bungie found its freedom only to make more games for MS. They are opening a new studio to help with the development of Mass Effect 2 because it got too big.

I don't disagree. I think Halo 3 and GTAIV are both overrated, lack innovation, and fail. I didn't post in this thread to prove the PS3/Xbox360 are better than the Wii. I think all 3 consoles lack special magic this gen. But yeah. Mass Effect seems to be pretty good though, so I won't touch that .

(also, I think M$ ruined Bungie but eh...)

Originally Posted by BreakABone

There are a ton of games on the Wii that I won't touch nor you, but there is a market for them.
Games like Order Up or Cooking Mama. The Rabbids series sells well. We Ski. The list goes on, sure you will find some reviews, but once again these aren't games made for the old-time gamers.

And I'm happy for that, we need games to appeal for all people.

I've said my piece about the Wii's line-up near the end of 08, but this is 09 and it is already off to a much better start.

fair enough

Originally Posted by BreakABone

MS and Sony don't have to continue to fight an uphill battle. While games come and tank on both consoles all the time, no one ever pulls their games don't sell to the userbase crap on those consoles.

And while Wii software (both first and third party) has outsold the PS3 and Xbox since like Oct of last year, people will still insist games don't sell on the Wii.

And if not that, 3rd parties will say the Wii isn't for the hardcore gamer or it wouldn't appeal to the audience.

Of course, it is easy to keep that image alive when no one wants to release a game on the Wii on the caliber of their 360 or PS3 counterparts.

Just look at friggin Dead Rising, they dropped the zombies to hell and released the game only a mere 3 years after the original. It won't sell well or at least I pray it doesn't then people will point their fingers and dub it evidence that games don't sell on the Wii.

That and like I mentioned before, people picked their pony at the start of this generation. It is coming back to bite them severely in the ass, but they don't want to confess up to it. Instead they want to pour more money into making the next game even more impressive.

I'm not confessing to anything and no pony bit me in the ass. We have a thread here full of people unhappy with the Wii.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

4 games.. and you pick out 1... 4 games...

Oh, did I say Sonic? I meant Sega....

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Not surehow Wii Play and Wii Sports are comparable to EA's lineup.
Tiger Woods gets solid reviews. Boom Blox as you pointed out yourself is doing well. While most won't agree with it, Dead Space being a rail shooter may work in its favor on the console. I'm sure the EA Tennis game will do really well. Etc....etc...

I <3 tennis too. And porn.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

Not disagreeing. Just saying, I wouldn't buy it for the controls alone.

Not saying you should, but was pointing out that the controls do help the game.

Potential, maybe. PC > Console for FPS, and yes I'm a prick for saying that.

I would go PC> Wii>> Consoles
I would even give a slight toss up between PC/Wii just because I much prefer analog stick over WASD for movement.

Porting arcade classics is gimmicky. Anyway 4 more recent rail shooters I can think of are Metal Slug, Ikaruga, Rez and Pokemon Snap.

Unless our definitions are different I wouldn't really count any of those as a Rail shooter.
The closest on the list would be PokeMon Snap, but even then its kind of a stretch.

I'm not going to completely disagree with your point. But it goes both ways. I assume that might also be the reason why people bought a Wii, enjoyed Wii sports for a month, and now their Wii sits and collects dust. I've heard this from many people so....

No one said the average consumer was intelligent.
Sure the same thing happened with Wii Fit.
Hell the same could be said of anything really.
I'm not disagreeing just saying it happens.

Also, for a hardcore gamer...bigger often is better. Did we not have an argument, "has Nintendo alienated the hardcore gamer?"

I'm not saying bigger isn't better at times, but people need to know when and why. Don't just go bigger because it is expected. Do it because it improves the quality of the game.

And I still don't think Nintendo has alienated the hardcore gamer.

It would be cool if Nintendo made a new franchise besides Zelda or Mario. And Wii stuff doesn't count. Maybe one day.

Nintendo has made a few new IPs this gen. Sadly, it doesn't seem like us mere mortals in America will be bare witness to some.
Disaster: Day of Crisis is out everywhere but America. Captain Rainbow will never make it over for obvious reasons.

Then there are a ton of new games/IPs in the Nintendo 09 trailer including Another Memory and the Space shooter.

Wii Sports is fun. Wii Play was totally unnecessary. They fill a certain "niche." Especially when it comes to social gaming. For hard gaming though, they fall short (except for golf...oh man i love that shit).

I won't disagree with those two points, but why can't they be for hardcore gamers?
I enjoy simple games like Bomberman or Tetris, while you can argue for Tetris, Bomberman is pretty casual for me.

I'm not confessing to anything and no pony bit me in the ass. We have a thread here full of people unhappy with the Wii.

I was referrring to the developers/publishers with this point.

Oh, did I say Sonic? I meant Sega....

Say what you will, but Sega has a pretty decent track record with games that don't involve Sonic.