Obama Chooses Joe Biden as VP

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Honestly outside of this and the other two threads open here, I have been listening to you. The thing is though, I've found it to be clear that you dislike Obama more than you like Mccain. Even in your above post I asked for you to leave out Obama in your explanation if possible, which it does look like 'compared to your other posts' you tried. (/salute)

I was just looking for a clear viewpoint from a Mccain supporter. :P I am conservitive by my own beliefs, but I do not claim a party since what it implies is that I'd support them no matter what. I will openly admit that I did vote for bush in 2004, and I feel like at the time I voted for him that he was misleading about what he hoped to do in his second term.. And the events of his second term showed that he was misleading in his first to. So as it stands now I'm strongly against Mr. President.

I do have some comments though... For #1, your opinion on Iraq. In your personal opinion what would you define as the job being "finished" in Iraq? And do you honestly think we're going to reach this goal realistically with how we're handling the war out there now?

In my opinion, I don't see a resolution there anymore, I just see Americans endlessly babysitting the people there and endlessly causing a distraction for the rest of the middle east. I think eventually we just need to pull out and let them handle their own social issues. I think in time if we were to ever reach this so called "peace" in Iraq, that the other countries around them will simply turn on them and start killing them off again anyway.

As for the economy (only drawing references to Obama because you did), I don't think myself or my kids stand to benifit more from what Mccain wants to do. Obama seems to want big changes, but a lot of his changes are rooted in what America stood for in the first place. Being the true land of oppertunity, and being strongly in the interest of the middle/lower class people instead of trying to once again spread the gap between the middle and upper class.

As for experience, there's no denying that he has a lot of experience, but judging off of all the slip ups he's done and all the flip flopping on forgien policy.. And given the fact that I've seen him outright paint false pictures, or show lack of understanding for what is going on overseas.. I don't think that his experience is helping him much. I think he has good advisors for speeches, but when it comes to live answers he sounds very clueless and I can't respect him at all for that.

As for Mccain's "independence", I think that's proven to be a bad quality for him, because his independent stances (that I have seen) go against what most americans think/want. That reminds me a lot of some other bad president we recently, or maybe even still have. As for him voting with bush 90% of the time, that's not shocking to me, nor is Obama voting with him 60%.

The way things stand, I did vote for bush to begin with for a reason, so I'm not completly against all his views either. Like I said, I am conservitive. But sadly in today's world, the bad is going to over shadow the good. Mccain openly supports bush on things I strongly disagree with, which is bad. In fact, hearing obama voted with him 60% of the time shows that Obama is reasonable and knowing that makes me more comfortable with my decision as it stands now.

1) After reading this post, you're not a conservative. If you believe that anything that Obama says about the economy and taxes reflects what this country was founded on, your confusing the constitution with the communist manifesto. He is a redistribition of wealth, new deal liberal, and thats NOTHING new, just a reflection of past failed policies.

2) My policies has been obvious since I joined this forum, and most of them are reflected in McCain's policies. You should KNOW why I'm for McCain. There's no need for me to repeat it yet again. If I'm concentrating more on Obama its because:

a) There are a lot more vocal liberals on this forum than conservatives, so the topic has been Obama more than not. Plus the Dem convention just took place. Of course Obama will be the topic of conversation.

b) Obama is the unknown, not McCain. Plus, he stands for EVERYTHING I'm against and I believe an Obama presidency combined with a Pelosi and Reed controlled congress could transform out nation into something it was never intended to be, and never should be.

3) You pick on me for not being clear enough on why I support McCain... but where is your criticism of the Obama supportrers who spend most of their time criticizing the Republicans and voting more against Bush than anything else? Its non-existant.

4) In a two party system, the opposition is just as important as the person running. Your voting not just for something you believe in, but against something you DON'T.

I find your entire critique of my posiiton to be disingenuopus at best, and while you say you're a conservative, I don;t see any conservatove beliefs reflective in your views. Your support of Obama defies all conservative belief. I declare shenanigans.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

1) After reading this post, you're not a conservative. If you believe that anything that Obama says about the economy and taxes reflects what this country was founded on, your confusing the constitution with the communist manifesto. He is a redistribition of wealth, new deal liberal, and thats NOTHING new, just a reflection of past failed policies.

For one I am a conservative. Though if you're opinion that I'm not based on one election then that's your choice. And yes I would agree that Obama is definently not conservative, and I never said he was.. in fact he goes against the meaning of the word. But once again, that's why I don't define myself as a party, because eventually if someone gets into office and makes bad decisions, then someone needs to come in and clean up their mess.

Obama only appeals to me because I think that Bush did not do a good job. Even though Bush did bad I gave him a second chance because of social issues I agree with him on, and because I felt he'd handle the war better. I didn't know Bush couldn't make any realistic judgement on Iraq, and what really threw me off was how he is so much for linking Mexico, Canada, and the US more.

2) My policies has been obvious since I joined this forum, and most of them are reflected in McCain's policies. You should KNOW why I'm for McCain. There's no need for me to repeat it yet again.

And how many political threads have you seen me reply to? I'm only asking juding off of the DNC thread, Mccain VP thread, and this thread. Where you displayed being extremely anti Obama, and hardly could make any reasonable good case for Mccain.

If I'm concentrating more on Obama its because:

a) There are a lot more vocal liberals on this forum than conservatives, so the topic has been Obama more than not. Plus the Dem convention just took place. Of course Obama will be the topic of conversation.

When I look at most of what people are saying, they're directly attacking Mccain, then you turn around and try to place the spotlight on Obama quick without referencing the good in Mccain. And of course, most things that you claimed were good about him people quickly snapped back at and you'd leave it open ended with no answer. That's why I needed you to clarify it before.

b) Obama is the unknown, not McCain. Plus, he stands for EVERYTHING I'm against and I believe an Obama presidency combined with a Pelosi and Reed controlled congress could transform out nation into something it was never intended to be, and never should be.

And what would that be?

3) You pick on me for not being clear enough on why I support McCain... but where is your criticism of the Obama supportrers who spend most of their time criticizing the Republicans and voting more against Bush than anything else? Its non-existant.

That's obvious, its because I'm voting against Bush too. :P And sorry if you think I'm picking on you, if it helps I respect you a lot for being an open Mccain supporter. I kow he has a lot of supporters out there, but I've yet to sit down and have a conversation with one. In fact, outside of this forum and on the news itself, I've yet to see anyone claim openly to be a Mccain supporter.

4) In a two party system, the opposition is just as important as the person running. Your voting not just for something you believe in, but against something you DON'T.

And I can agree to that. But repeating what I said before, I knew from the gate you were against Obama and never questioned that. Nor do or did I expect to make any arguements that'd change you. I was just looking for a positive opinion on why you'd vote for Mccain.

I find your entire critique of my posiiton to be disingenuopus at best, and while you say you're a conservative, I don;t see any conservatove beliefs reflective in your views. Your support of Obama defies all conservative belief. I declare shenanigans.

Okay, then to make it clear. I'm pro life, anti gay marriage, I think that America should be proactive about war and squash problems before they get to big, instead of waiting for people to be fighting in our backyard. I'm also a christian, and I do not support any laws that go against my beliefs.. Which is a lot of what Democrats push for, which is why most of the time you're going to find I vote with the republicans.

But on the flip side, I'm not a millionaire. I'd consider myself in the lower to middle class tops as far as finances go, and I do support changes that I feel stand to benifit my group the most. From how I was raised, I had no choice but to work right out of HS, though I did go to college at the same time it didn't progress as easilly as I believe it should have.

I also believe that supporting the American people and giving them a good way of life is equally important as fighting to defend it. Not that I'm complaining about how we live now, but I do think that progress can be made.

And, while I said before that I'm all for being proactive on wars and squashing what could be considered threats, I feel that the war in Iraq itself started off of a false premise. And because of how the people will not stop fighting its obvious that Iraq never wanted our help. So in this case of war, I think we should back out of it in a timely manner, our presence there is causing more of a problem then its helping as far as gaining a resolution over there.

And I guess to further my views on war, I do not believe in political wars. I don't believe in wars aimed at one person or group, instead it should be focused on both the group and the people who support the group. If you're unwilling to kill the supporters, then there's no reason to fight because if they didn't want their leader bad enough they could simply have their own civil war and work out their own issues.

There that's my personal stance on politics, though a very dumbed down version without many examples.. But I'm not trying to write a term paper for the forums though. :P And as you may have noticed, my stance doesn't go in line with Mccain or Obama 100%, nor does it go alone with Democrats or Republicans 100%. The reason I'm voting for Obama right now, is because I belive he's is more capible of making the right decisions for the issues I feel are affecting me right now. And I'm well aware of what things I may regret.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Okay, then to make it clear. I'm pro life, anti gay marriage

I won't even touch the issue but I hope you see some contradiction in this statement.