Charlton Heston has died

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by DeathsHand

Wait, someone found out who he really is?
Did I miss something?

Not really, there was just a picture that may or may not have even been him. And it wasnt even a good picture.

[Angrist]

And his real life name. And where/what he studies.

[Seth]

The Ten Commandments was watched in my Christian orientated family more than once. Ben-Hur stands as an example of film production at its height. Truly amazing actor who used his influence for good. I have Soylent Green on my hard drive, just need the time to sit for a watch. His role in Touch of Evil was superb along Orson Welles fat, maniacal bad cop role. A b&w film definitely worth the watch.
Heston was a campaigner for human rights. This guy is one of those dudes with immense public exposure who was ballsy enough to stand up for his beliefs. It's unfortunate that so many people view Heston through the contorted lense of michael moore who presented Charlton as a gun mongering idiot with no basis in fact. The truth is, the guy was diagnosed that same year with alzheimers and what more did with his editing was extremely distasteful, as was George Clooney's comments regarding Heston's alzheimers condition. If you don't believe in the 2nd amendment then you shouldn't have a problem when your government invades your home without a warrant and takes away your personal freedom. The redcoats were taking away the citizens' guns prior to 1775. wake up? Charlton campaigned for equal rights during the 60's along with MLK. Heston had much to say... to borrow from wiki:
"If Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys - subjects bound to the British crown."[30] He went on:

"The Constitution was handed down to guide us by a bunch of wise old dead white guys who invented our country! Now some flinch when I say that. Why! Its true-they were white guys! So were most of the guys that died in Lincoln’s name opposing slavery in the 1860s. So why should I be ashamed of white guys? Why is “Hispanic Pride” or “Black Pride” a good thing, while “White Pride” conjures shaven heads and white hoods? Why was the Million Man March on Washington celebrated by many as progress, while the Promise Keepers March on Washington was greeted with suspicion and ridicule? I’ll tell you why, Cultural warfare!"


RIP to a man in the same vein as Ron Paul and MLK.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Seth

RIP to a man in the same vein as Ron Paul and MLK.

I can sympathize with, if not agree completely, with most of what you wrote up until this part: Ron Paul is an anti-semite who has accepted campaign money from known white supremacists and has had his column knowingly printed in white supremacist newsletters.

Neither Heston nor MLK have much in common with Ron Paul.

[Angrist]

Originally Posted by Bube

Charlton Heston I don't know at all (sorry people, if he's somebody important).

I thought I didn't know him, but then somebody (read: NOT ON GT!!) mentioned that he played Ben Hur.

[Seth]

Originally Posted by Professor S

I can sympathize with, if not agree completely, with most of what you wrote up until this part: Ron Paul is an anti-semite who has accepted campaign money from known white supremacists and has had his column knowingly printed in white supremacist newsletters.

Neither Heston nor MLK have much in common with Ron Paul.

"In a press release, Paul repeated that the quotations came from several other writers "when I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time," and again denounced and disavowed the "small-minded thoughts", citing his 1999 House speech praising Rosa Parks for her courage; he said the charges simply "rehashed" the decade-old Morris attack."

"Dr. Paul stands for freedom, peace, prosperity and inalienable rights. If someone with small ideologies happens to contribute money to Ron, thinking he can influence Ron in any way, he's wasted his money," Paul spokesman Jesse Benton said. "Ron is going to take the money and try to spread the message of freedom."

It was a white supremacist(not plural). I don't see why that money's tainted at all. The total was $500 dollars. Personally, I think it was responsible of him to not return the donation and instead use it for something just a wee bit more positive than the message of white supremecy.

[Professor S]

I'm sorry, Seth, but actions speak louder than words. Accepting the money is one thing, and to keep it is political idiocy regardless of the spin, but to knowingly have his column in the American Free Press for YEARS is another.

The American Free Press is a "newspaper" run by a consipracy nut, holocaust denier and blatant anti-semite who has even had links on his page to Nazi propoganda. here is an interesting article about American Free press

http://www.911review.com/denial/holocaust.html

Orf course Paul and his supporters would deny his nature, its obviously unpopular and pretty damn disgusting to the general populace. I prefer to judge a man by their actions, and Paul's actions are that of a bigot.

[Seth]

I'd just like to see anything that shows Paul to be an anti-semite. That's judging by association and I don't think it's fair. How has Paul acted as a bigot? Just because someone does a periodical sit in for FOX news doesn't mean they carry the same ideological slant...
Bobby Fischer was an anti-Semite, cuz he bashed the Jews. That's what the label anti-semite entails. Association with a news outlet doesn't make you anything, unless you profess to it. If I joined the nazi party, well yeah, that'd be a declaration of my opinion.
And something else just to throw out,....i know we won't get too crazy over this. I don't believe in the 9/11 official story. It doesn't make logical sense to me. That doesn't mean I'm a holocaust denier. not in the slightest and from what I've seen from the vast media is an effort to correlate any kind of 9/11 'questioners' with other conspiracy theories and stuff along the lines of holocaust denial.
btw. What do you think of that radio guy Alex Jones? Myself, I think he's a rightwing sensationalist who laps up the attention. I'm not saying he doesn't have balls though. What do you think of his Bohemian Grove footage?
peace

[Professor S]

Fine, here then:

Below are two more news clips making reference to the racist statements in Mr. Paul's newsletter. These problems have clearly been out there since the mid-1990s, but Mr. Paul has been below the radar until now. If he's really going to stay in the debates, perhaps the moderators can deal with this...

Candidate Had Newsletter With Controversial Stance On Blacks

196 words

24 May 1996

CongressDaily/A.M. English

Copyright (c) 1996 National Journal Inc.

A 1992 political newsletter by former Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, included portrayals of African-Americans as inclined toward crime and lacking sense about political issues, the Houston Chronicle reported Thursday. Paul, a former Libertarian Party presidential candidate who defeated Democratic-turned-Republican Rep. Greg Laughlin in the March primary, in November will face Democratic attorney Charles (Lefty) Morris, whose campaign is distributing Paul's writings.

Under the headline "Terrorist Update," Paul reported on gang crime in Los Angeles and wrote, "If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be." About blacks in Washington, D.C., Paul wrote, "I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal." Paul said Wednesday that his comments came in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time," and that he opposes racism.

In later newsletters, Paul wrote that lobbying groups who seek special favors are evil, and that "by far the most powerful lobby in Washington of the bad sort is the Israeli government."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1835179/posts

And thats just one of MANY racist thoughts and publications that he's had. if you like, I can dig up more evidence. It also tells you a lot that outside of a few press releases he has never gone out of his way to disassociate himself from his MANY neo-nazi and white supremacist supporters. me? I'd be having PRES CONFERENCES to condemn them.

For the record, I don't believe that you are a racist in the least for supporting Paul, I just think he is very good at deceiving the populace and those that have a traditional conservative/constitutional view of government and lean towards isolationism. I'd also be wary of anyone on the far right isolationist wing who rails against "neo-cons", because that seems to be used in the stead of "jews" in many cases.

[Seth]

The quotes in that article were written by a 'staffer' and not Ron Paul. Also, he publicly apologized immediately for the oversight after its release.
And saying that the Israeli government is a bad lobbyist group in Washington doesn't even remotely get close to anti-semitism. And replacing 'jews' in for 'neo-cons' isn't cool.
His comments about black people,.. being able to safely assume...
Taken in context he was referring to a statistics from a 1992 study produced by the National Center on Incarceration and Alternatives. He wasn't saying that 95% of African American men were criminally oriented....at all.
Paul also worked the moonlight shift at the local emergency room in San Antonia for $3/hour. Which is peanuts for someone in his profession and level of experience.
Read the entire article you posted and a more contextual conclusion can be made.

ahhh wiki:
Military service and medical career

Paul considered becoming a Lutheran minister like two of his brothers[9] (Jerrold has a doctorate in counseling and attended Princeton Seminary; David pastors Trinity Lutheran Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan).[6][12] Instead he decided to pursue a medical degree at Duke University School of Medicine in Durham, North Carolina, attaining it in 1961. He interned and began residency training, both in internal medicine, at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit (1961–1962);[28] Carol meanwhile ran a dance school in their basement and raised collies.[7]

The medical training was soon interrupted when he received a draft notice and entered the U.S. Air Force during the Cuban Missile Crisis.[29] He remained in the military during the early years of the Vietnam War.[30] He served active duty as a flight surgeon from 1963 to 1965, attending to the ear, nose, and throat problems of pilots in South Korea, Iran, Ethiopia, and Turkey, but was never sent to Vietnam. Based out of Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Paul achieved the rank of captain[8][31] and obtained his private pilot's license.[14] The experience of performing physicals on helicopter pilot candidates, at a time when he saw many copters being shot down, deeply affected Paul; he later considered his indirect association with Vietnam as a catalyst for his rejection of interventionist foreign policy.[32]

Paul received a higher wage from the Air Force than during his initial residency, $700 per month;[33] he joked that he was "fantastically rich".[14] While in San Antonio, he also moonlighted three nights a week in a local church hospital's emergency room for $3 per hour, and became involved with Barry Goldwater's presidential campaign.[12] He then served in the Air National Guard while completing his residency (1965–1968), having switched to ob/gyn at the University of Pittsburgh.[34] His residency research into causes of pregnancy toxemia was subsequently published in the journal Obstetrics and Gynecology.

He moved to Surfside Beach, Texas, on July 3, 1968, and eventually delivered more than 4,000 babies.[35] Assuming the practice of a retiring doctor in Lake Jackson, Texas, in a single day, Paul became the only ob/gyn doctor in Brazoria County,[14] reportedly delivering 40–50 babies a month and frequently busy with surgery.[25] His practice refused Medicare and Medicaid payments; he worked pro bono, arranged discounted or custom-payment plans for needy patients,[22] or otherwise "just took care of them".



http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=377205
"In one issue of the Ron Paul Survival Report, which he had published since 1985, he called former U.S. representative Barbara Jordan a "fraud" and a "half-educated victimologist." In another issue, he cited reports that 85 percent of all black men in Washington, D.C., are arrested at some point: "Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the 'criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal." And under the headline "Terrorist Update," he wrote: "If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

In spite of calls from Gary Bledsoe, the president of the Texas State Conference of the NAACP, and other civil rights leaders for an apology for such obvious racial typecasting, Paul stood his ground. He said only that his remarks about Barbara Jordan related to her stands on affirmative action and that his written comments about blacks were in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time." He denied any racist intent. What made the statements in the publication even more puzzling was that, in four terms as a U. S. congressman and one presidential race, Paul had never uttered anything remotely like this.

When I ask him why, he pauses for a moment, then says, "I could never say this in the campaign, but those words weren't really written by me. It wasn't my language at all. Other people help me with my newsletter as I travel around. I think the one on Barbara Jordan was the saddest thing, because Barbara and I served together and actually she was a delightful lady." Paul says that item ended up there because "we wanted to do something on affirmative action, and it ended up in the newsletter and became personalized. I never personalize anything."

His reasons for keeping this a secret are harder to understand: "They were never my words, but I had some moral responsibility for them . . . I actually really wanted to try to explain that it doesn't come from me directly, but they campaign aides said that's too confusing. 'It appeared in your letter and your name was on that letter and therefore you have to live with it.'" It is a measure of his stubbornness, determination, and ultimately his contrarian nature that, until this surprising volte-face in our interview, he had never shared this secret. It seems, in retrospect, that it would have been far, far easier to have told the truth at the time. "

[Professor S]

Honestly, this coversation about Paukl is cyclical. he does things that are obviusly bigotted and then he apologizes for them. I still haven't heard a decent explanation how he could possibly allow his column to be printed in the American Free Press for so long. Yes, its guilt by association, but when you spend YEARS associated with known nazi-sympathizers, you deserve such guilt.

To answer your questions:

1) Bohemian Grove - Yes, the Bohemian Society exists, but its a fraternity where the powerful go to act like idiots. Just as Harry Shearer (of Simpsons fame) was once a guest who made movie lamponing all the conspiracy theories about the place. Everyone who has ever been a guest there and talked about it basically says they just drink and act like kids. Some people just think that because a fraternal orgamization is secret or exclusive, it is automatically evil. Reminds me of much of the idiocy surrounding theories about Freemasons. My dad is a mason. They have beef and beers and give to charity.

2) Alex Jones - Complete moron. Utter idiot. Borderline insane. Worse than Michael savage, and Savage is a fascist.

3) 9/11 - I wish people would stop believing the nonsense about 9/11. Go here for the REAL TRUTH

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...w/1227842.html

A few highlights:

No, fore cannot melt steel, but it can weaken it by 50% or more, which is enough for failure. The overpass collapse in Cali is an excellent example of this.

Building 7: Was crumpling before is fell. There is photographic evidence of this. Plus I have a friend who was evacuated from 12 and she said she saw 7 and it was a complete disaster long before it came down.

[Seth]

I don't see how he does things that are obviously bigotted but you're right, it's cyclical to go on.

Well, of course BG exists. I'd like to know what you think of the cremation of care though? A human effigy being sacrificed to a 45 foot stone owl. Yeah, they drink beer and 'cast off their worries" but the inclusion of that kind of ancient religious ceremony is a bit whack no matter how you look at it.
I won't get into freemasonry, because you're right, they do a lot of charitable work. My uncle's a shriner(same body) and they're all about helping the community. How much do you know about masonry beyond their low level activities?

Alex Jones is questionably insane. His news headlines are mostly sensationalism. But he had the balls to go into the grove and film imo.

What do you guys think of Aaron Russo and his assertations?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Seth

Well, of course BG exists. I'd like to know what you think of the cremation of care though? A human effigy being sacrificed to a 45 foot stone owl. Yeah, they drink beer and 'cast off their worries" but the inclusion of that kind of ancient religious ceremony is a bit whack no matter how you look at it.

I think its a bit silly, but as a member of a fraternity myself, we did similar things to symbolize mental objectives. Cremation of Care is an opportunity to literally destroy their worries and stresses in a symbolic sense, I considering how high powered the people are I can kind of understand it. At worst, its a frivolous bit of idolic symbolism, and if it bothers you that much you should have more issues with Catholicism than the Bohemian Society.

I won't get into freemasonry, because you're right, they do a lot of charitable work. My uncle's a shriner(same body) and they're all about helping the community. How much do you know about masonry beyond their low level activities?

I've done some research into Freemasonry, and most of the criticisms fall into one of two categories: 1) Things that went on centuries ago and 2) Speculation and conspiracy theory based on paranoia created by centuries old history. I've heard all the conspiracy theories about the dollar bill and the New World Order, and after doing a lot of research into the time period and lierally recorded history about the design of US symbology, those theries show more of an ignorance of the time period and intent of our founding fathers than anything else.

Alex Jones is questionably insane. His news headlines are mostly sensationalism. But he had the balls to go into the grove and film imo.

I'd have balls to run through a black university in a KKK robe and hood, but that doesn't make me any less a bigotted idiot/psycho.

What do you guys think of Aaron Russo and his assertations?

Never heard of him.

EDIT: Oh, he's the one who thinks there is no legal basis for taxes... except the 16th amendment. While I certainly sympathize with his wishes for no taxes and think we are taxed FAR too much, his argument is essentially baseless.

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsieg...taxes/16th.htm


What did you think of the Popular Mechanics debunking of 9/11 myths I posted?

[Seth]

I read through that before, and since you posted it I went through it again. The explanations for the pentagon don't add up to me. The images of the structural and aesthetic damage don't reflect a 757. I have a hard time believing that wing structure dissolved upon impact without causing more lateral damage to the exterior. Doesn't add up. The punch out at the C ring interior happened without lateral damage? A carbon nose cone managed to penetrate all that space with the resulting damage? ay o
K, you've probably looked at your share of 9/11 'conspiracy' footage.
http://911lies.org/full_size_911_pen...k_damage5.html
Check that site out just quick like and check the images out. To me, the official line isn't consistent with the visual evidence. Also, why haven't the traffic/surveillance cameras been made public? If their story is so legit than why keep that evidence from the general viewing? It would only further help their case right?...yeah yeah speculation but I stand by rational thought. They did 'it' with the Gulf of Tonkin...and track record means something.
And the reason I bring Russo up is because he was buddy buddy with Nick Rockefeller. Nick told Russo that a 9/11 event would happen 11 months prior to the incident. He also said that they'd use it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan to ensure pipelines from the caspian and later Iraq which forms a nice little allied circle around Iran. hmmm I guess Russo could be making a big public lie about it.
And, I have a huge problem with Catholicism. In fact, they held more than one mass at Bohemian Grove, which is something Alex Jones won't mention. The difference between BG and Catho is that the former practices fake human sacrifices to a Babylonian deity out in the woods with nothing but sausage for miles around, the latter merely abuses children...and breaks 2 of the commandments they profess to adere. On a theological level the Catholic church is extremely hypocritical and it rather disgusts me that the leaders of America like to suck pope dick the moment he lands on American soil.
The research and information regarding freemasonry, illuminism, and the connected circle of secret societies is treading on some potentially offensive grounds. The NWO movement is very real and when you study the ideologies of the plan it becomes concerning. "order out of chaos" - G.W.Bush

[Dylflon]

PAAAARRRRAAAGRAAAAAAAPH BAAAAATTTTLLLE!