Charlton Heston has died

[Seth]

I don't see how he does things that are obviously bigotted but you're right, it's cyclical to go on.

Well, of course BG exists. I'd like to know what you think of the cremation of care though? A human effigy being sacrificed to a 45 foot stone owl. Yeah, they drink beer and 'cast off their worries" but the inclusion of that kind of ancient religious ceremony is a bit whack no matter how you look at it.
I won't get into freemasonry, because you're right, they do a lot of charitable work. My uncle's a shriner(same body) and they're all about helping the community. How much do you know about masonry beyond their low level activities?

Alex Jones is questionably insane. His news headlines are mostly sensationalism. But he had the balls to go into the grove and film imo.

What do you guys think of Aaron Russo and his assertations?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Seth

Well, of course BG exists. I'd like to know what you think of the cremation of care though? A human effigy being sacrificed to a 45 foot stone owl. Yeah, they drink beer and 'cast off their worries" but the inclusion of that kind of ancient religious ceremony is a bit whack no matter how you look at it.

I think its a bit silly, but as a member of a fraternity myself, we did similar things to symbolize mental objectives. Cremation of Care is an opportunity to literally destroy their worries and stresses in a symbolic sense, I considering how high powered the people are I can kind of understand it. At worst, its a frivolous bit of idolic symbolism, and if it bothers you that much you should have more issues with Catholicism than the Bohemian Society.

I won't get into freemasonry, because you're right, they do a lot of charitable work. My uncle's a shriner(same body) and they're all about helping the community. How much do you know about masonry beyond their low level activities?

I've done some research into Freemasonry, and most of the criticisms fall into one of two categories: 1) Things that went on centuries ago and 2) Speculation and conspiracy theory based on paranoia created by centuries old history. I've heard all the conspiracy theories about the dollar bill and the New World Order, and after doing a lot of research into the time period and lierally recorded history about the design of US symbology, those theries show more of an ignorance of the time period and intent of our founding fathers than anything else.

Alex Jones is questionably insane. His news headlines are mostly sensationalism. But he had the balls to go into the grove and film imo.

I'd have balls to run through a black university in a KKK robe and hood, but that doesn't make me any less a bigotted idiot/psycho.

What do you guys think of Aaron Russo and his assertations?

Never heard of him.

EDIT: Oh, he's the one who thinks there is no legal basis for taxes... except the 16th amendment. While I certainly sympathize with his wishes for no taxes and think we are taxed FAR too much, his argument is essentially baseless.

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsieg...taxes/16th.htm


What did you think of the Popular Mechanics debunking of 9/11 myths I posted?

[Seth]

I read through that before, and since you posted it I went through it again. The explanations for the pentagon don't add up to me. The images of the structural and aesthetic damage don't reflect a 757. I have a hard time believing that wing structure dissolved upon impact without causing more lateral damage to the exterior. Doesn't add up. The punch out at the C ring interior happened without lateral damage? A carbon nose cone managed to penetrate all that space with the resulting damage? ay o
K, you've probably looked at your share of 9/11 'conspiracy' footage.
http://911lies.org/full_size_911_pen...k_damage5.html
Check that site out just quick like and check the images out. To me, the official line isn't consistent with the visual evidence. Also, why haven't the traffic/surveillance cameras been made public? If their story is so legit than why keep that evidence from the general viewing? It would only further help their case right?...yeah yeah speculation but I stand by rational thought. They did 'it' with the Gulf of Tonkin...and track record means something.
And the reason I bring Russo up is because he was buddy buddy with Nick Rockefeller. Nick told Russo that a 9/11 event would happen 11 months prior to the incident. He also said that they'd use it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan to ensure pipelines from the caspian and later Iraq which forms a nice little allied circle around Iran. hmmm I guess Russo could be making a big public lie about it.
And, I have a huge problem with Catholicism. In fact, they held more than one mass at Bohemian Grove, which is something Alex Jones won't mention. The difference between BG and Catho is that the former practices fake human sacrifices to a Babylonian deity out in the woods with nothing but sausage for miles around, the latter merely abuses children...and breaks 2 of the commandments they profess to adere. On a theological level the Catholic church is extremely hypocritical and it rather disgusts me that the leaders of America like to suck pope dick the moment he lands on American soil.
The research and information regarding freemasonry, illuminism, and the connected circle of secret societies is treading on some potentially offensive grounds. The NWO movement is very real and when you study the ideologies of the plan it becomes concerning. "order out of chaos" - G.W.Bush

[Dylflon]

PAAAARRRRAAAGRAAAAAAAPH BAAAAATTTTLLLE!

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Seth

I read through that before, and since you posted it I went through it again. The explanations for the pentagon don't add up to me. The images of the structural and aesthetic damage don't reflect a 757. I have a hard time believing that wing structure dissolved upon impact without causing more lateral damage to the exterior. Doesn't add up. The punch out at the C ring interior happened without lateral damage? A carbon nose cone managed to penetrate all that space with the resulting damage? ay o

The fact is no one knows what would happen when a 757 collides with a building made to withstand a missile attack, like the Pentagon. In any other building there may have been lateral damage,m but we don't know as we have no real example for comparison. The facts are that debris from the plane was everywhere after the crash, in tiny little pieces, as shown in the photos provided in the link. To jump to the conclusion that is was a conspiracy from the US government is a bit, mad, I'm afraid.

K, you've probably looked at your share of 9/11 'conspiracy' footage.
http://911lies.org/full_size_911_pen...k_damage5.html
Check that site out just quick like and check the images out. To me, the official line isn't consistent with the visual evidence. Also, why haven't the traffic/surveillance cameras been made public? If their story is so legit than why keep that evidence from the general viewing? It would only further help their case right?...yeah yeah speculation but I stand by rational thought. They did 'it' with the Gulf of Tonkin...and track record means something.

A record that is almost 50 years old? Seriously? By that logic they might start beheading the Bourgeoisie again any day now...

And the reason I bring Russo up is because he was buddy buddy with Nick Rockefeller. Nick told Russo that a 9/11 event would happen 11 months prior to the incident. He also said that they'd use it as an excuse to invade Afghanistan to ensure pipelines from the caspian and later Iraq which forms a nice little allied circle around Iran. hmmm I guess Russo could be making a big public lie about it.

I wouldn't doubt it, as it sounds crazy enought to me, and coming from a guy who denies the 16th amendment it sounds just about right.

In the end though, 911 conspiracy theories fall apart with any logical questioning of them? Whhen you take the microscope away from the government, and put it on the theories, they are assinine?

1) If they were military planes, what happened to the real ones and everyone on board? I suppose they were able to reroute the planes, kill or silence any and all aircraft controllers who helped, create false cell phone logs for passengers on the plane and then kill all the passengers and destroy the planes leaving no evidence and then kill everyone who disassembled the planes, and then all the people who killed everyone killed themselves. Thats the only way word doesn't get out.

2) Osama Bin Laden, with a 20 year history of terrorism against the US crossing all presidential administrations in that time period, becomes an employee of the USA and joins in so that the US can have a good excuse to go into the Mid East and blow the shit out of his people.

3) And the US is able to cover everything up, the demolitions, the government planes, plant false evidence on a MASSIVE AND DETAILED SCALE... and this is the same government that can't figure out how to build a fence on the border or provide decent healthcare... Watch the Sout Park episode.

And, I have a huge problem with Catholicism. In fact, they held more than one mass at Bohemian Grove, which is something Alex Jones won't mention. The difference between BG and Catho is that the former practices fake human sacrifices to a Babylonian deity

Wrong, the deity you mention has nothing to do with the Cremation of Care, it was meant to symbolize knowledge. Just look up the Wiki on it. The god you are referring to, Moloch, had the head of a BULL and had nothing to do with Owls at all. It was literally the Golden Calf pictured in the Ten Commandments. I know where you got your information on this, and its a huge lie. Honestly, try and find opposing informatiuon for your views, because its easy to find info that debunks some these crazy theories.

The research and information regarding freemasonry, illuminism, and the connected circle of secret societies is treading on some potentially offensive grounds. The NWO movement is very real and when you study the ideologies of the plan it becomes concerning. "order out of chaos" - G.W.Bush

Order out of chaos was said by GW because it was on the dollar bill and the seal of the United States. It is a symbol of the Revolution, creating the new union out of the colonies.

http://altreligion.about.com/library.../aa111604a.htm

Illuminism was part of a small sect of of german masons in the late 18th century which quickly dissappeared. Any other belief in the illuminati owes more the popular historically inspired fiction than reality.

While I thank you for sharing your thoughts, I'm honestly worried about you, Seth. Your conspiratorial beliefs border on mental illness, IMO, and I don;t intend that as an insult but as a show of concern. Theories like your do nothing but create a sense of powerlessness; "no matter what I do sectret powers will keep me/us down". There is no way to dissuade you of these theories, because their nature is secret and insunuation has more basis than fact. Its become a religion. The farther the leap in logic, the more powerful the "truth" as everything is masterfully created by powerful men in dark robes. The simply expained debunking of these theories loses validity simply becasue they are not as complex and "puzzle like" as the theory.

If you look at any event in history, and say: "How does this show a shadow conspiracy", I guarantee you you'll be able to pull together a specious argument for it. Unfortunately the government is to blame for this paranoia, as Watergate and event slike the Gulf of Tonkin have made people question anything the government tried to do or says, regardless of directly condemning evidence.

I love stories like this in books and film, they are honestly compelling, but they are just stories and I would hope you would eventually get your feet on the ground again. I mean that with all sincerity and empathy.

And Dyflon, you know I'll win any paragraph battle on GT. Lets be honest

[Seth]

Originally Posted by Professor S

The fact is no one knows what would happen when a 757 collides with a building made to withstand a missile attack, like the Pentagon. In any other building there may have been lateral damage,m but we don't know as we have no real example for comparison. The facts are that debris from the plane was everywhere after the crash, in tiny little pieces, as shown in the photos provided in the link. To jump to the conclusion that is was a conspiracy from the US government is a bit, mad, I'm afraid.

A record that is almost 50 years old? Seriously? By that logic they might start beheading the Bourgeoisie again any day now...

I'd say that 50 years is hardly any time. Seriously, there's nam vets all over the place, alive and many mentally unstable. It's hugely significant especially when you consider the correlation between faked event --> going to war.
And there isn't evidence of debris being 'everywhere'. There's a few photos that show some plane parts but nothing that would resemble 757 jet crashing. I'd like your thoughts on how a a 757 could penetrate that much of the building and pop out section C with the resulting damage.

I wouldn't doubt it, as it sounds crazy enought to me, and coming from a guy who denies the 16th amendment it sounds just about right.
In the end though, 911 conspiracy theories fall apart with any logical questioning of them? Whhen you take the microscope away from the government, and put it on the theories, they are assinine?

I don't like to assume someone is lying. The 16th amendment was ratified in 1913. The Federal Reserve was also created in 1913. Not a founding fathers document at all. In fact the founding fathers and some presidents warned about consolidating the nations money under private bankers.

1) If they were military planes, what happened to the real ones and everyone on board? I suppose they were able to reroute the planes, kill or silence any and all aircraft controllers who helped, create false cell phone logs for passengers on the plane and then kill all the passengers and destroy the planes leaving no evidence and then kill everyone who disassembled the planes, and then all the people who killed everyone killed themselves. Thats the only way word doesn't get out.

I'm not saying they were military planes. heck, I'm not saying I agree with conclusions that are made to 'explain' any discrepancies.
Who's saying those planes were anything but the one's full of peoplel. not I. Cockpit computer control systems are capable of doing many things. Back during Kennedy they were planning on remotely controlling an airliner and having it attacked(Tonkin style) in order to necessitate a war with Cuba. Just because someone has doubts about the 9/11 official story doesn't mean they buy all the crap that gets thrown out there.

2) Osama Bin Laden, with a 20 year history of terrorism against the US crossing all presidential administrations in that time period, becomes an employee of the USA and joins in so that the US can have a good excuse to go into the Mid East and blow the shit out of his people.

What do you mean against the US? The CIA funded Osama in the afghani/soviet union war. They were 'freedom fighters' at that time because of their influence in keeping soviet control at bay.
Does it not matter at all that the Federal US government has had a long standing relationship with the Osama family? His 20 years of 'terrorism' were funded heavily by the american government. That's an undeniable fact, ....Us involvement in the middle east probably changed Osama's mind about his funding buddies. who knows. I don't know how you draw, fighting soviets with US help, as being terrorism against the US.

3) And the US is able to cover everything up, the demolitions, the government planes, plant false evidence on a MASSIVE AND DETAILED SCALE... and this is the same government that can't figure out how to build a fence on the border or provide decent healthcare... Watch the Sout Park episode.

Why haven't they built a fence way earlier? They can't figure out how to build a decent fence on the border? please. The US has the most powerful and technologically advanced military in the world. If they actually wanted to keep immigrants from crossing illegally then all they'd have to do is invest more money and get it done. Illegal immigrants fill the walmart jobs that don't pay enough for any american who enjoys a 'decent' level of affluence. Why should the federal government provide decent health care. At what point in their track record have they shown to give a shit about the working class individuals as far as providing social services? I still don't see how it's a massive scale detailed coverup. Sure, if it's really a conspiracy then yeah, they have to cover things up. But when you have mainstream media on strings it's not so hard. Also, to reiterate, I don't buy into the 'theories' raised of what actually went on. I merely have questions based on the evidence presented.

Wrong, the deity you mention has nothing to do with the Cremation of Care, it was meant to symbolize knowledge. Just look up the Wiki on it. The god you are referring to, Moloch, had the head of a BULL and had nothing to do with Owls at all. It was literally the Golden Calf pictured in the Ten Commandments. I know where you got your information on this, and its a huge lie. Honestly, try and find opposing informatiuon for your views, because its easy to find info that debunks some these crazy theories.

Actually historians aren't even sure of molech(in the hebrew context) actually existed. Molech is used to describe a deity that recieves human sacrifice. The babylonian empire used large owl monuments(supposedly hollow and made of metal) to sacrifice children to. The cremation of care is a combination of many rituals. It has ties with druidic rituals as well. Have you actually watched all of the footage?
"Nineteenth and early twentieth century commentators also characterized Rabbinical traditions about other gods mentioned in the Tanach as simply legends, and regarded them as raising doubt about what was said about Moloch. They suggested that such descriptions of Moloch might be simply taken from accounts of the sacrifice to Cronus and from the tale of the Minotaur; No bull-headed Phoenician god was known. This did not hold back some from identifying Moloch with Milcom, with the Tyrian god Melqart, with Ba‘al Hammon to whom children were purportedly sacrificed, and with any other god called 'Lord' (Ba‘al) or (Bel)"

Order out of chaos was said by GW because it was on the dollar bill and the seal of the United States. It is a symbol of the Revolution, creating the new union out of the colonies.
http://altreligion.about.com/library.../aa111604a.htm
Illuminism was part of a small sect of of german masons in the late 18th century which quickly dissappeared. Any other belief in the illuminati owes more the popular historically inspired fiction than reality.

It isn't a symbol of 'the revolution'. Illuminism didn't quickly disappear either. It found root in early American history. The fact is there was a roundup of 'illuminati' members by the American authorities because documents were found which were considered to be the movement of an undermining of the nations ideals.'treachery'

While I thank you for sharing your thoughts, I'm honestly worried about you, Seth. Your conspiratorial beliefs border on mental illness, IMO, and I don;t intend that as an insult but as a show of concern.

I'm honestly worried that you're worried about me. It's good to know you have the discernment faculties to label someone as having borderline mental illness issues based on such a few lines of thought. actually, it's a bit worrying. And I know you're not the kind to throw insults indiscriminately. So don't worry about how I interpret your intentions.

Theories like your do nothing but create a sense of powerlessness; "no matter what I do sectret powers will keep me/us down". There is no way to dissuade you of these theories, because their nature is secret and insunuation has more basis than fact. Its become a religion. The farther the leap in logic, the more powerful the "truth" as everything is masterfully created by powerful men in dark robes. The simply expained debunking of these theories loses validity simply becasue they are not as complex and "puzzle like" as the theory.

I don't understand what you mean by this. If one looks at the political structure of both our nations, well, that gives off the feeling of being powerless. The choice between cousins in 2004 for presidency gives off the vibe of powerlessness. Especially two skull and bones members. uh oh, more conspiracy talk. Well, I honestly feel that political leaders should be open to full scrutiny. The fact that they belonged to such a secret frat as the skull and bones and will not disclose any information is disconcerting imo. Do I feel powerless ('believing' in a grand conspiracy for one world government)....no. Not at all. Powerlessness is watching my tax dollars being spent on military intervention that is pissing off some mean motherfuckers. Powerlessness is watching our world leaders meet in private meetings with no log or record of what is being discussed. That's the opposite of what a democratic, open society should be.

If you look at any event in history, and say: "How does this show a shadow conspiracy", I guarantee you you'll be able to pull together a specious argument for it. Unfortunately the government is to blame for this paranoia, as Watergate and event slike the Gulf of Tonkin have made people question anything the government tried to do or says, regardless of directly condemning evidence.

It's not about asking yourself, "How does this show a shadow conspiracy?" You look at who gained from historical events and who lost. Instead of gathering every historical tidbit one knows from textbooks, I prefer to do further research and find the consolidation of power. There's historical facts that I find fascinating and base a logical conclusion on the evidence given. And it's not taking 'any' historical fact and finding a conspiracy for it.

I love stories like this in books and film, they are honestly compelling, but they are just stories and I would hope you would eventually get your feet on the ground again. I mean that with all sincerity and empathy.

So I guess you've labeled me a nut. well, opinion is opinion.
What's your major btw?

[Professor S]

My major was Communications Arts and Theater with a minor in Creative Writing and History. I have a graduate degree in Educational Technology. I have also been certified in 5 professional adult training platforms.

Oh and I was a member of Delta Pi Sigma, and if you were to believe the myths about that organization we all fucked sheep, pissed on pledges and made them eat shit (literally) to be inducted. I'm not kidding. And no, we did none of that.

But we did eat raw onions and drink vinegar and soy sauce. That sucked. Especially the vinegar. Not even Cider or Malt either... bastards...