What is Canada?

[Joeiss]

Nazi's just made a bunch of poor decisions... if they made good ones, they could have won the war easily. And maybe if they picked up a history book, they could have beat Russia too.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

Originally Posted by Joeiss

And all from taking only 1 and a half history courses at school, hahaha.


And I do not think the Nazi's were defeated by the Russian winter alone... There was much much more.

lol, the russians as well

[Happydude]

Originally Posted by GiMpY-wAnNaBe

lol, the russians as well

[Crono]

The Russian tanks were also superior to the Nazi Panzer tanks. As well, defeat was not an option for Russia, and Stalin knew that, and if he had to kill his own soldiers to defeat the Germans, then he was prepared to do so. And finally, Soviet tanks and soldiers greatly outnumbered the Germans, which was another major factor. In fact, Hitler once said "If I had known that they had 10 tanks for each of our tanks, I would have reconsidered invading the USSR." Well, that's not a direct quote, but he said something like that. The point is, the USSR defeated two thirds of the Nazi Army, and they were a major factor in the defeat of the Third Reich.

[GiMpY-wAnNaBe]

Originally Posted by Crono

The Russian tanks were also superior to the Nazi Panzer tanks. As well, defeat was not an option for Russia, and Stalin knew that, and if he had to kill his own soldiers to defeat the Germans, then he was prepared to do so. And finally, Soviet tanks and soldiers greatly outnumbered the Germans, which was another major factor. In fact, Hitler once said "If I had known that they had 10 tanks for each of our tanks, I would have reconsidered invading the USSR." Well, that's not a direct quote, but he said something like that. The point is, the USSR defeated two thirds of the Nazi Army, and they were a major factor in the defeat of the Third Reich.

i'm nt to sure about the russain tanks being superior, i rmeember reading that the Germans were much mroe prepared and advanced in military fasions, mainly because as soon as hitler came in power he started the training of 10 year olds and such to prep them for war, and then when they became older they were all gung ho and stuff, not only that, germany also had a lot more time to prepare (before they made an alliance with USSR), in the end it was Hitler being stupid that brought the downfall of the Nazis, because he decided to turn on Russia



ANYWAYS, BACK ON TOPIC!!!

[Hero2]

And the russians where in a down fall of there economy. that they still havent recoverd from

ps its when i care that ill give facts the other stuff i just like ****in with people and you should be ashamed if you actually take any of my posts to heart(except for the beaches the two that the americans took where the heart of the defence there and it was put togther by rommel you know the great leader of the forces in africa

[Ace195]

Originally Posted by Hero2

And the russians where in a down fall of there economy. that they still havent recoverd from

ps its when i care that ill give facts the other stuff i just like ****in with people and you should be ashamed if you actually take any of my posts to heart(except for the beaches the two that the americans took where the heart of the defence there and it was put togther by rommel you know the great leader of the forces in africa

[IMG]ftp://rankinse@ftp-www.earthlink.net/tralala.bmp[/IMG]

Hold on that though Adding a picture taking a second because i have to upload it to my personal ftpsite then to my homepage.. sorry will have it up a in a jiffy

[Dylflon]

Originally Posted by Hero2

And the russians where in a down fall of there economy. that they still havent recoverd from

ps its when i care that ill give facts the other stuff i just like ****in with people and you should be ashamed if you actually take any of my posts to heart(except for the beaches the two that the americans took where the heart of the defence there and it was put togther by rommel you know the great leader of the forces in africa

Oh. I should be so ashamed. You're still an idiot. When am I supposed to know when you are joking or not?

Sorry for taking your words out of context Rndm. And I didn't mean the Canadians made up trench warfare but I meant they came up with a lot of strategies that are still practiced today and are in soldier field manuals.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by GiMpY-wAnNaBe

i'm nt to sure about the russain tanks being superior, i rmeember reading that the Germans were much mroe prepared and advanced in military fasions, mainly because as soon as hitler came in power he started the training of 10 year olds and such to prep them for war, and then when they became older they were all gung ho and stuff, not only that, germany also had a lot more time to prepare (before they made an alliance with USSR), in the end it was Hitler being stupid that brought the downfall of the Nazis, because he decided to turn on Russia



ANYWAYS, BACK ON TOPIC!!!

The Soviet T-34 tank WAS THE best tank in World War II.

"Since Ukraine was the center of heavy industry in the USSR in the 1930s it produced much of the armaments before the German invasion. One surprise Hitler's army encountered was the T-34 tank which was designed and built in Ukraine in the Kharkiv Tractor Factory. The German general von Runstedt called the T-34 the "best tank in the world" and von Kleist said it was the "finest in the world." The first Ukrainian T-34 tank, no. 1, was tested by successfully driving it 1,000 miles from Kharkiv, Ukraine, to Moscow, Russia and back. The T-34 medium tank was superior to the German Panzer tanks because it had a more powerful cannon, a higher top speed (32 MPH to 25 for the Panzers), the armour was so superior that German shells bounced off it, superior welded construction invented by Academician Paton, and it had a wider track so it did not get bogged down in mud like the German Panzer. The Germans decided that the Ukrainian T-34 tank was so superior to the Panzer that they would have copied it but "Unfortunately for Germany this was not possible. German engineering technology was not up to it, many of the special alloys used in its construction were not available," states Andrew Kershaw in Weapons & War Machines (New York 1976) p. 192. (Incidentally, in 1995 the Ukrainian T-84 Tank being built in Kharkiv is again considered the best in the world.)"

http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/page-26.html

Built in Ukraine (and if you know anything about USSR, Ukraine was part of the USSR), and so the tank was used by the Soviets, and was ultimately superior to the Panzers. And of course Germany had more time to prepare for war. I don't think the Soviets were expecting a German invasion, but because of Hitler's hatred for Stalin, war between the two was unavoidable. USSR was communist, Hitler was fascist, war was almost certain.

Originally Posted by Hero2

And the russians where in a down fall of there economy. that they still havent recoverd from

ps its when i care that ill give facts the other stuff i just like ****in with people and you should be ashamed if you actually take any of my posts to heart(except for the beaches the two that the americans took where the heart of the defence there and it was put togther by rommel you know the great leader of the forces in africa.

World War II was actually the height of the Soviet Economy, thanks to Stalin's "5 year plan", which dramatically increased factory and industrial productions. The real collapse of the Soviet economy came in the 1980s, near the end of the Cold War.

[Hero2]

i thought they were having revoutions due to the fact they were sending all the food and supplys they had to the front lines

[Crono]

Thumbs up for Stalin!

[Vampyr]

I love it when Crono does this...

Putting everyone in their place. +rep.

[Seven7]

Originally Posted by Crono

The Soviet T-34 tank WAS THE best tank in World War II.

Yes I agree that overall of all of the tanks I have read about in my study of WWII weapons history over the years, that the T-34/85 was the best. Widly exported after the war, it saw front-line service in Africa as late as the 1980s and some may still be in use in the former yugoslavia and Albania.


Now how about some Canadian tank history.

How about the fact Canada had there own tank called the The Canadian Ram Cruiser Tank.

It was a unique Canadian evolution of the American M3 Medium (Grant/Lee). It had been acknowledged as early as August 1940 that the British would be unable to meet our requirements for cruiser tanks, and Montreal Locomotive Works (a subsidiary of American Locomotive Co., which was already building tanks) was designated as the Canadian Tank Arsenal. It was judged that the excessive height and inferior armament configuration of the M3 series could be improved upon locally, and a new tank was designed around the excellent M3 engine and drivetrain.

Unfortunately, during the process of design, the British specification for cruiser tanks mounting a 2 pdr gun was adhered to, and the 60-inch turret ring of the Grant was retained, thus restricting the Ram from ever being upgunned beyond 6 pdr. (then) Colonel Worthington himself had argued for the minimum of a 75mm main gun, but was overrulled by the Interdepartmental Tank Committee under the influence of the British Tank Mission. While this was happening, however, British experience on the battlefield was already dictating the necessity for a heavier main gun, and the early 2 pdr Ram did at least get a turret with a readily detachable frontpiece, which could be removed with gun in place and replaced by a 6pdr assembly.

The prototype Ram rolled off the assembly line in June 1941, and general production of the Ram I began that November. Within three months the line had been changed to Ram II production, which continued until July 1943, at which point the decision had been taken to re-equip British and Canadian units with the abundant and better-armed U.S. Sherman. A total of 1948 Rams of all marques were produced, the last 84 of which were the O.P. variant carrying a dummy gun and two No. 19 Wireless sets for use by the FOOs (Forward Observation Officers) of the Sexton-mounted artillery regiments then being formed.

In its cruiser configuration, and limited by its small turret ring and 6 pdr gun, the Ram never saw combat, but was used instead for the training of armour crews in Great Britain. By late-summer 1944, with the war raging in Northern Europe, even that function had all but ceased, but the Ram found new life, and went on to do yeoman service, in a number of variants including the Kangaroo armoured personnel carrier, Badger flame tank, Wallaby ammunition tank, armoured gun tower (for the 17 pdr towed AT gun) and ARV. Sadly, most of the Rams which survived the European war ended their time as hard targets on a variety of tank ranges, and few examples remain.