No mohammed discussion?

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

So what? If 1 billion people are wrong in their belief does that make it okay?

The fact they don't want Mohammad depicted is wrong? Who are you to dictate what another religion should deem good or bad?

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

If thousands of Christians genuinely believed the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe, would that belief be okay?

Hundreds of years ago, yes. That would be perfect.

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

What 1 billion wrong people has no implication on my right to free speech. Even if a part of those billion people live in the very country whose Constitution clearly states freedom of speech.

Firs toff, I assume you're meaning there are Muslims in the US. There are. 0.2% of the world's population of Muslims live in the US.
Secondly, you have no right to say which religion is wrong, and which is right. In this case (The case of Mohammad not being depicted) technically, they are right. Mohammad isn't allowed to be depicted. It says so in their religion. So realistically, South Park, and those defending it are in the wrong.

Sure, it is blasphemous to the person who has no humor. So what? That's the point of freedom of Speech.

No it's not, it's equality. Not anger and hate.

It is relevant to this conversation because you brought up the word Nigger. Let us not forget that not too long ago South Park had an episode about that Nigger guy. And it didn't offend anyone (or anyone I know). In fact, it was hilarious!

I'm pretty sure you could find a handful of black people who didn't like the 'Nigger Guy' episode, which is the same as this. But I assume you'd try and tell those black people they're wrong for not wanting white people to say the word 'Nigger'.

You're walking a fine line deciding whose beliefs are important. It's all or nothing buddy

Everyone's. I'm saying EVERYONES beliefs are important (to that person). That DOES NOT give anyone else the right to poke fun (when they know damn well it won't be taken lightly) at any other religion. Slight jokes are great. If you don't think I'm about equality in religion, check out the Catholicism thread, because I was defending the shit out of that. Take a lifelong Italian Catholic, and stick them in a room with some 20-something Muslims who are depicting some dude giving it to Virgin Mary, and I don't think it would be a "OH, this is hilarious! I love your artwork" type of situation.

I'm slagging on Muslim extremists who are lashing out at people who want to parody religion. In case you missed the year 2010, every other person who practices every other religion besides Islam (with the exception of extremists and clergy) is okay with parody of religion.

Different Culture.

But why does someone somewhere considering something blasphemy make it ok to silence speech with threat of violence?

Mana, I never adressed the violence part of this, nor did I obviously agree with it.

I'm trying to get the point across that A) Freedom of Speech is not universal B) The Middle East in general has a VERY different culture - at least amongst the extremists. They aren't as relaxed as we are about shit like this.

Personally, I don't think it's good to make fun of anyone's religion. Or any religion for that matter. It's always going to be a serious topic, and it's always going to get the wrong person pissed off. And in the end, what does it accomplish? Answer me that. Did they want to depict Mohammad to get a point across, or to get news for their ever-failing popularity? My honest opinion is the latter.

Edit: Ahhh, KG, half points. It's not a bobblehead and he's not giving someone a high-five. He's just ready for the occasion.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

The fact they don't want Mohammad depicted is wrong? Who are you to dictate what another religion should deem good or bad?

I'm not sure where this Good/Bad straw man came from, as I never said the religion was good or bad. I questioned the validity of the belief using a scientific and now legal approach.

Look, I'm speaking strictly in terms of United States law. I'm speaking in terms of law firmly now too, especially at this point in the discussion. In America the LAW, L-A-W, is freedom of speech. It really doesn't matter what anyone believes because the L-A-W states that I have a right to freedom of speech. That is who I am to dictate.

US Constitution (The Law) > rules of Muslim religion

So if 1 billion Muslims believe that Mohamed should not be depicted, and I believe I wanted to depict him, I would be right and they would be wrong. At least in a legal sense. In a philosophical sense we could certainly argue, but then I'd ask you to prove the existence of Allah.

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Hundreds of years ago, yes. That would be perfect.

No, it wouldn't. In fact early Christians or whoever fucked a lot of good stuff up. Word in the history books is Alexander the Great had a library full of information that was burned to the ground by fundamentalists, information that was recently rediscovered as early as just a few hundred years ago. It wasn't until Copernicus got the wheels of science rolling again that people realized how bad the anti-science mentality from religion was. This is totally subjective, of course.

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Firs toff, I assume you're meaning there are Muslims in the US. There are. 0.2% of the world's population of Muslims live in the US.
Secondly, you have no right to say which religion is wrong, and which is right. In this case (The case of Mohammad not being depicted) technically, they are right. Mohammad isn't allowed to be depicted. It says so in their religion. So realistically, South Park, and those defending it are in the wrong.

Constitution > religious rules




I feel like there is very little I can add to this discussion with further arguing, so I'll let more qualified people jump in.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I'm not sure where this Good/Bad straw man came from, as I never said the religion was good or bad. I questioned the validity of the belief using a scientific and now legal approach.

You alluded to "If 1 billion people are wrong" which I took as a direct statement to Muslims, opposed to a comparison of 1 billion people on some other topic.

but then I'd ask you to prove the existence of Allah.

Prove God doesn't/Prove he does. Blah blah blah. That's circular and retarded.
And yes, I'm aware the absence of proof isn't proof.
And for the record, I am not religious, so I have no stake in any of this.

No, it wouldn't. In fact early Christians or whoever fucked a lot of good stuff up. Word in the history books is Alexander the Great had a library full of information that was burned to the ground by fundamentalists, information that was recently rediscovered as early as just a few hundred years ago. It wasn't until Copernicus got the wheels of science rolling again that people realized how bad the anti-science mentality from religion was. This is totally subjective, of course.

No, I agree with you.
What I was getting at was that hundreds and hundreds of years ago the world was flat (as far as everyone knew), making the statement of "The world is flat" a 'fact', until proven otherwise. So to think the world was flat in an age where the world was depicted to be flat wouldn't be wrong, or crazy. By our standards, completely.

[Teuthida]

*sigh* I thought I was done with this thread.

On science:
Everyone should be free to believe whatever cannot be proven by science. Don't believe in evolution or think the world is flat. We'll have words. Think there's an omniscient invisible dude in the sky? Whatever.

On respect:
If you trick a vegetarian into eating meat, you're a dick.
If you draw a swastika on someone's property, you're a dick.
If you call someone the n-word, you're a dick.
If you depict Mohammed, you're a dick.
If I could think up something for Christians to be a dick about I would but it seems most of them don't agree on anything and constantly break all their own rules anyway.

Comedians can get away with racey material about their own race/religion. If you (not of that race/religon) do it, you're a dick and a bigot.

To summarize: Don't be a dick.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Teuthida

*sigh* I thought I was done with this thread.

On science:
Everyone should be free to believe whatever cannot be proven by science. Don't believe in evolution or think the world is flat. We'll have words. Think there's an omniscient invisible dude in the sky? Whatever.

Pretty good definition, except nothing can be proven in science. There is simply a consensus on the best given theory. Most people, however, who say evolution is false or might think the world is flat, aren't actually interested in real science, despite what they might think. But anyway...

On respect:
If you trick a vegetarian into eating meat, you're a dick.
If you draw a swastika on someone's property, you're a dick.
If you call someone the n-word, you're a dick.
If you depict Mohammed, you're a dick.
If I could think up something for Christians to be a dick about I would but it seems most of them don't agree on anything and constantly break all their own rules anyway.

I just don't think those are equal. Maybe if you depict Mohammad, and then shoved it in front of a Muslim's face, forcing them to see it, then you're a dick. Depicting Mohammad in your own space or show? IMO that's hardly being a dick. Forcing someone to not depict Mohammad in their own space, and force it with fear of violence? THAT's being a dick, and far more.

Comedians can get away with racey material about their own race/religion. If you (not of that race/religon) do it, you're a dick and a bigot.

To summarize: Don't be a dick.

Disagree with this, too. Comedians do equal opportunity insulting all the time.

[Teuthida]

Originally Posted by manasecret

I just don't think those are equal. Maybe if you depict Mohammad, and then shoved it in front of a Muslim's face, forcing them to see it, then you're a dick. Depicting Mohammad in your own space or show? IMO that's hardly being a dick. Forcing someone to not depict Mohammad in their own space, and force it with fear of violence? THAT's being a dick, and far more.

That's fair. As Typhoid pointed out though, they don't want Mohammed becoming a joke like has Jesus become. Besides things like Buddy Jesus, you have folks traveling hundreds of miles to see a potato chip that sort of maybe looks like what people imagine he looked like. That's ridiculous. Best to stop images completely. Threatening with violence is never the answer though. I guess I can't assume folks will just play nice. Too many Americans are segregated from Islamic culture. All they know comes from TV and these stupid extremists. Easy to villainize.

[Professor S]

After reading this thread I think the psychological community should advance political correctness to the level of a mental disease.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Professor S

After reading this thread I think the psychological community should advance political correctness to the level of a mental disease.

Amen! Alleluia! Derka Derka! Derka derka muhammad allah jihad.

It’s amazing, some of the responses in this thread.