Sony Motion Controller

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

False.
We are saying what if there are people who don't have any of these systems yet. Not that they were waiting for something specific, just that there MAY BE people on this planet who haven't been able to afford a system. Are we saying the motion controller is the breaking point? Fuck no. We're saying if these people who don't have systems yet want a system, Sony and Microsoft have taken away the only technological advantage the Wii had.

That. Is. What. We. Are. Saying.

So...we can all agree Sony Move is going to fail, right? Is anybody going to bother actually arguing my point?

[KillerGremlin]

Holy shit people, we need a group hug.

For the record I think the anal wand and Natal are going to fail...and those games for Sony look like shit. I thought the Wii had some crap on it but damn.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Xantar

So...we can all agree Sony Move is going to fail, right? Is anybody going to bother actually arguing my point?

Depends, what would you consider failure? How many sales would be a failure, how many would be questionable, and how many sales would be a sucsess? Lets be realistic here.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Depends, what would you consider failure? How many sales would be a failure, how many would be questionable, and how many sales would be a sucsess? Lets be realistic here.

Obviously if it doesn't surpass the Wii in sales it's a complete and utter failure.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Obviously if it doesn't surpass the Wii in sales it's a complete and utter failure.

If that's what's considered failure.. then I would bet every paycheck I have for the rest of the year that it'll fail.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Depends, what would you consider failure? How many sales would be a failure, how many would be questionable, and how many sales would be a sucsess? Lets be realistic here.

You tell me. Do you think 20% uptake would be a success? Because that's about the best case scenario.

Or instead of sales, let's try this: if after a year publishers decide that it's not worth giving more than token support to Move, and if games designed to use Move slow down to a trickle of gimmick shovelware, would you consider that a success? Because that's what's going to happen.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Xantar

You tell me. Do you think 20% uptake would be a success? Because that's about the best case scenario.

Or instead of sales, let's try this: if after a year publishers decide that it's not worth giving more than token support to Move, and if games designed to use Move slow down to a trickle of gimmick shovelware, would you consider that a success? Because that's what's going to happen.

Hey I asked first!

You tell me.. how many sales would it have to have for you to be like "wow I was wrong, it succeeded". If 20% uptake is your definition of sucsess, then I agree it will fail. 20% would mean it's have to sell around 7 million.

-EDIT-

And in case I read it wrong.. are you saying that if it continues to get support for more then a year it is a sucsess? I don't know, I'm trying not to put words in your mouth. How many sales and how long would it have to be supported for it to be a sucsess in your eyes?

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Hey I asked first!

You tell me.. how many sales would it have to have for you to be like "wow I was wrong, it succeeded". If 20% uptake is your definition of sucsess, then I agree it will fail. 20% would mean it's have to sell around 7 million.

-EDIT-

And in case I read it wrong.. are you saying that if it continues to get support for more then a year it is a sucsess? I don't know, I'm trying not to put words in your mouth. How many sales and how long would it have to be supported for it to be a sucsess in your eyes?

I think 20% by any standard is a failure. And I think the Move will be lucky if it even reaches that high. And neither you nor Typhoid have given any solid evidence or arguments to tell me why it will do any better than that.

I think Move will be a success when it's widely seen to be essential that every major game released on the PS3 must use it, whether that happens next year or three years from now. The reason I think Move will fail is because I think that will never happen. The only chance is for Sony to include Move 2 on the PS4. But right now, Move is going to fail by any reasonable standard you care to use.

Also, fix your damn spell check. Seeing "sucsess" repeatedly is getting on my nerves.

You mean sort of how no Wii really game successfully uses motion control aside from Wii Sports resort and maybe 10 other games, and the games released all have the option for GC controllers because that's what people would rather use?

Nice try trolling me. And now that I know you can't even count, do you want to try to convince me that Sony Move will be used by even 20% of PS3 owners?

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Xantar

I think 20% by any standard is a failure. And I think the Move will be lucky if it even reaches that high. And neither you nor Typhoid have given any solid evidence or arguments to tell me why it will do any better than that.

I don't believe 20% would be a failure, but I also don't think it will reach 20%. So my your definition, I think that it will fail also. So we're in agreement on that much.

I think Move will be a success when it's widely seen to be essential that every major game released on the PS3 must use it, whether that happens next year or three years from now. The reason I think Move will fail is because I think that will never happen.

I don't think that will ever happen, but I also think that isn't the "goal".

[Typhoid]

I think Move will be a success when it's widely seen to be essential that every major game released on the PS3 must use it, whether that happens next year or three years from now. The reason I think Move will fail is because I think that will never happen.

What a load of shit.
Either you're actually trying to play stupid to get people angry, or it's just happening on it's own.


So in that sense the Wii is a total failure, because not every game strictly uses Motion Control.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Xantar

You tell me. Do you think 20% uptake would be a success? Because that's about the best case scenario.

Or instead of sales, let's try this: if after a year publishers decide that it's not worth giving more than token support to Move, and if games designed to use Move slow down to a trickle of gimmick shovelware, would you consider that a success? Because that's what's going to happen.

You mean sort of how no Wii really game successfully uses motion control aside from Wii Sports resort and maybe 10 other games, and the games released all have the option for GC controllers because that's what people would rather use?

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

You mean sort of how no Wii really game successfully uses motion control aside from Wii Sports resort and maybe 10 other games, and the games released all have the option for GC controllers because that's what people would rather use?

The first is only an opinion, which I disagree with.

The second is factually wrong, as there are only 40+ Wii games that offer any type of GameCube controller support, which is a very tiny %.

And here's the real kicker, to me anyhow, that is exactly why the Move will fail. The Cube controller is offered ONLY as an option in most of those games, and you claim people prefer it, now imagine the reverse. Where the "normal" controller is the standard one, and the motion one is offered as an option. How many developers will support it? How many will even come up with those "10 other Wii games" as you say.

And that's why the Move will fail, not just because its an add-on, but because from a business standpoint and from a gamer's standpoint, it doesn't make sense.

[Typhoid]

The second is factually wrong, as there are only 40+ Wii games that offer any type of GameCube controller support, which is a very tiny %.

I meant to put 'prefer' in there.

Of the games that use motion control, please post a long list of games that are considered "Awesome games to have for motion control" that aren't the following:

Wii Sports/Resort
Any game with 'Wii' in the name
Mario Kart/Mario
Madworld

And of course there is a very tiny percentage of games that actually offer GC support. There are hundreds of nameless and faceless boxes of crap for the Wii that are made for toddlers. If you flood the market with crap, it will obviously change the ratios.

And that's why the Move will fail, not just because its an add-on, but because from a business standpoint and from a gamer's standpoint, it doesn't make sense.

This is what I don't get. This view.

Wii Motion Control = great idea! Brilliant! Plan the parade route!
Sony Motion Control/Natal = Terrible idea. Won't work. Epic failure.


Edit:

Nice try trolling me. And now that I know you can't even count, do you want to try to convince me that Sony Move will be used by even 20% of PS3 owners?

Let's hold that tongue there, chap.

As I said to Bab, I meant to stick 'prefer' in there.
So it would be : "Of the games that are successful and use motion control (obviously aside from Mario Galaxy) how many opt for the GC controllers instead of Motion Support?"

Do you play Smash Bros with the wiimote? I, nor anyone I know sure doesn't. Do you use the Wiimote for racing on Mario Kart? I, nor anyone I know sure doesn't.

Thus was my point.

And neither you nor Typhoid have given any solid evidence or arguments to tell me why it will do any better than that.

And you haven't given any solid evidence of why it will fail miserably.
This goes both ways.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I meant to put 'prefer' in there.


And you haven't given any solid evidence of why it will fail miserably.
This goes both ways.

Really? You didn't see my other posts in this very thread explaining why the Move is going to fail? Are you by any chance functionally illiterate? Because, I mean, I'm sorry if you are. That's a terrible condition to have.

Otherwise, maybe you should go back and look again.

Oh by the way, I do in fact play Smash Bros with the Wiimote/Nunchuk combo. I played in BAB's tournament that way. I forget who I was playing against, but I don't think I did too badly. Nonetheless, that's neither here nor there.

What a load of shit.
Either you're actually trying to play stupid to get people angry, or it's just happening on it's own.


So in that sense the Wii is a total failure, because not every game strictly uses Motion Control.

First of all, the word "major" is key here. Again, I'm sorry if you're actually functionally illiterate, but I'm working on the assumption that you have a ninth grade education at the very least.

Also, the Wiimote is not an add-on to the Wii. Move, on the other hand, is. It has a much higher goal to reach before it can be considered a success.

Tell you what, though: you tell me what your standard is for Move to be considered a success or a failure. I guarantee Move will not meet it. You can save this post and come back to it a year from now if you like.

[BreakABone]

As a note, can we calm down on the personal insults. Yes, I'm guilty of it as well, but I guess what happens when people have somewhat of a passion of what talking about.

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I meant to put 'prefer' in there.

Of the games that use motion control, please post a long list of games that are considered "Awesome games to have for motion control" that aren't the following:

Wii Sports/Resort
Any game with 'Wii' in the name
Mario Kart/Mario
Madworld

And of course there is a very tiny percentage of games that actually offer GC support. There are hundreds of nameless and faceless boxes of crap for the Wii that are made for toddlers. If you flood the market with crap, it will obviously change the ratios.

Well now you are just limiting things.
But let's see from what I've played
No More Heroes 1/2
Medal of Honor Heroes 2
The Conduit (you said where the controls are better, not necessarily a great game)
World of Goo
Swords and Soldiers
Lost Winds
Metroid Prime Trilogy/Corruption
House of the Dead: Overkill
Tiger Woods
Boom Blox/Boom Blox Party
Rayman Raving Rabbids
EA Sports Active

This is what I don't get. This view.

Wii Motion Control = great idea! Brilliant! Plan the parade route!
Sony Motion Control/Natal = Terrible idea. Won't work. Epic failure.

This is where comprehension comes in.

I have never said that Move/Natal are terrible ideas, I mean not to my knowledge, sure someone can dig up an old quote.

I don't think Move/Natal are terrible ideas

I don't think they won't work

I do think that they have to overcome that hurdle the Wii is built on motion, the controller is given as an option in few games

As you say, everyone you knows prefers the controller, how would it be different w/ the Natal/Move?


In terms of success/failure for Move/Natal, as much as I follow the industry, I'm not really sure which measurement is suitable. I mean the devices will sell, there's no question about that, and there will be games, but it won't topple the world, I guess.

Here are the basic troubles that Natal/Move has to overcome
1) Developer's support, right now the 360 and Ps3 sit at around 39 and 31 million consoles sold apiece, why would you negate that HUGE pool of gamers for a device that currently has 0 users.

2) Gamer's support
As Typhoid pointed out, he prefers his games with a normal controller, I'm sure there are a TON of gamers who follow that, and if not, there's always the "if it isn't broken why fix mentality" I mean I get along perfectly fine with my Sixaxis and Xbox controller. I don't see a need to invest in more hardware when I can play pretty much what I want now.

On the other end of the spectrum, the so-called "casual" gamers have made the Wii their home. As they have shown or at least evidence would point towards, they don't care much for graphics, and decent online implementations is good enough for them, so it really negates any advantages that they other two would have in converting them.

3) Time frame, both of these are coming out late in their respective consoles life-span. Honestly, the story of this generation has been written, and I don't see much changing.

4) Games
At the end of the day, what it comes down to.
And I don't know how to phrase this, but most games have their audiences by now, a new Metal Gear or Final Fantasy or Halo or Resistance or Uncharted or Gears or Fable with motion controls really would help shift focus, as those games have their audiences and you would only be grabbing a small subset of them with it.
Casual game market is pretty much cornered between the Wii and the PC. So you may get some stragglers, but not much else.