Sony Motion Controller

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by TheGame

So are you saying this new controler will be required by more games on Ps3?

That's actually kind of the opposite of what I'm saying.

The PlayStation Move won't take off because it isn't required with games.

Let's say, do you think games like Uncharted 3, next Ratchet, Modnation will use Move as primary controls? Or do you think it will be given an option?

Psx Launched at the end of 94, the Dual shock launched at the end of 97. (Or for US, mid 95 for Psx and mid 98 for Dual shock)... 3 years.. 4 years... same deal imo. I'm guessing at the time the DS had launched, Psx had more units sold then Ps3.

How do you not see how you prove my point?
The DualShock didn't become the standard until the PS2, and was lightly supported on the PSX, with rare games like Ape Escape taking full advantage of it.

The PlayStationMove is coming a year later, and is building itself into an even smaller niche because unlike the PSX controller to Dual Shock doesn't have the same layout so its not like you can make a game that uses the Move like a normal controller. And yes I know of SOCOM, but meant moving something like UC 2 or Killzone onto it.

As for your other points... true, it requires more pieces of equipment, and more money.. but in the end, if someone likes both what the Ps3/360 offer and what the Wii offers, knowing that Sony offers the same gimmick (and more), might play against Nintendo's sales.

Who knows though.. it depends on how they advertize it, and if they get a good rip off for the Wii sports/fitness games.

This is the part where you and to an extent Typhoid lose me on, after 3 years, do people still think it is the controller that sells the system? Do you think, people will be like "Oh motion controls and its HD!" and move on?

Let's look at the facts
a)The PS3/Xbox 360 have ALWAYS offered more on paper than the Wii. Better graphics, better sound, better online interface, DVD/blu-ray support, chat, etc, etc

b) People are buying/playing a game that looks like this,

Do you really think fancy graphics is the key to gaining that market?

c) Sony Move and to a certain extent Project Natal still can not replicate everything Nintendo does. Neither will be able to mimick Wii Fit based on current technology.

D)For all the crap Nintendo does wrong, what is the best selling online enabled game of this generation?

[TheGame]

On a side note before I start... someone needs to delete whatever picture is stretching this thread out. It's hella annoying.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

That's actually kind of the opposite of what I'm saying.

The PlayStation Move won't take off because it isn't required with games.

Let's say, do you think games like Uncharted 3, next Ratchet, Modnation will use Move as primary controls? Or do you think it will be given an option?

I think it will be given as an option, possibly. Just like the Analog stick was given as an option.

How do you not see how you prove my point?
The DualShock didn't become the standard until the PS2, and was lightly supported on the PSX, with rare games like Ape Escape taking full advantage of it.

I guess that depends on your definition of lightly supported. Pretty much all the games that came out for Psx after 98 supported it in some sense. All the games that could benifit from different levels of movement speed. Was it a requirement? No. Was it supported? Yup.

The Dual Shock ended up being the standard for the Psx in general. I think it's more "revisionist history" to say the controler without the sticks remained the standard.. Analog sticks didn't just become Psx's standard, it became an industry standard. And judging off of sales, something else might be becoming the industry standard now.

But who knows... If you agree that the wii mote could become the industry standard, then you look at it more like the Psx Analog stick then I do. If you think it can't become the industry standard, then you're somewhat in my ballpark of understanding how Nintendo tried to avoid direct competition with MS and Sony by offering something different.

The PlayStationMove is coming a year later, and is building itself into an even smaller niche because unlike the PSX controller to Dual Shock doesn't have the same layout so its not like you can make a game that uses the Move like a normal controller. And yes I know of SOCOM, but meant moving something like UC 2 or Killzone onto it.

That's true.

This is the part where you and to an extent Typhoid lose me on, after 3 years, do people still think it is the controller that sells the system? Do you think, people will be like "Oh motion controls and its HD!" and move on?

No, I honestly don't... don't think that they'll just say it's HD and move on. But you can't deny that the gimmick of the motion controls is what makes the console popular, because as you're about to say:

Let's look at the facts
a)The PS3/Xbox 360 have ALWAYS offered more on paper than the Wii. Better graphics, better sound, better online interface, DVD/blu-ray support, chat, etc, etc

And

b) People are buying/playing a game that looks like this,

So..

Do you really think fancy graphics is the key to gaining that market?

No, this generation motion controls are... apparently. Because it's definently not graphics, or hardware quality. And it also can't be game quality based off of scores.. things are more simple now... right?

c) Sony Move and to a certain extent Project Natal still can not replicate everything Nintendo does. Neither will be able to mimick Wii Fit based on current technology.

That will be a harsh blow.

D)For all the crap Nintendo does wrong, what is the best selling online enabled game of this generation?

I don't know. And I don't care... I just know the average Joe who wants both what Wii offers and what Ps360 offers are going to be swayed more towards Ps360 opposed to buying two systems or just Wii after these controls come out...

But like I said in my last post, it depends on how they advertize it, and if they get a good rip off for the Wii sports/fitness games. I think if they can't minic at least the sports games, they will probably fail.

[Typhoid]

I deleted the massive one.

[TheGame]

And just for fun...

What I'm saying is.. that if a person wants a Wii and a Ps360, and can only afford one or the other.. the addition of motion controls to the Ps360 will increase the odds that they'd pick a Ps360 over a Wii.

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...2&postcount=39

And as typhoid is about to point out, nobody says everyone will up and abandon Wii for the Ps360. It's just that it will swing sales for people who want both.

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...3&postcount=34

So again, as I said before.. if someone wants both the full Ps360 experience, and the full Wii one, but can only afford to buy one or the other (or doesn't want to buy both).. This controller increases the odds that they'd go for the Ps360.

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...6&postcount=26

I just know the average Joe who wants both what Wii offers and what Ps360 offers are going to be swayed more towards Ps360 opposed to buying two systems or just Wii after these controls come out...

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...6&postcount=19

true, it requires more pieces of equipment, and more money.. but in the end, if someone likes both what the Ps3/360 offer and what the Wii offers, knowing that Sony offers the same gimmick (and more), might play against Nintendo's sales.

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/sho...8&postcount=17

If you don't understand what I'm saying, I can't help you.

[BreakABone]

Justin, here's the thing, and maybe you have some source I don't know about, but after 4 years, how many people do you think are REALLY on the fence about buying a Wii, 360 or PS3?

This is what neither of you have been able to prove or disprove. You talk as if there is a collective of people, who are just waiting for the PS360 to gain motion controls, and there is a group of people who are waiting on an HD-enabled Wii.

But you know all of this talk is going no where fast, so I'll just put it out there for you and Typhoid and anyone else, but do any of you intend to actually pick up the Move?

And here's another piece wrote on another forum,

I think I can finally articulate the problem that Move will have to overcome.

From the "casual" gamer standpoint, it doesn't really offer much that the Wii doesn't. I mean say its imprecise or inaccurate but for the average joe it hasn't made a difference in the last 4 years.

For the "hardcore" gamer standpoint, I see very few "hardcore" games that will use Move as an exclusive means of control so as a consumer why would I buy 3 pieces of hardware to play Move when it works pretty well with my DualShock/Sixaxis? It offers a more accurate means of control, but the one I have now works just fine as well.

I'm sure e3 may remove those doubts.

[Typhoid]

I don't know about, but after 4 years, how many people do you think are REALLY on the fence about buying a Wii, 360 or PS3?

4 years ago the 360 didnt have the promise of the Natal, the PS3 didn't have a motion controller, and BLu Ray wasn't really off the ground as it is now.

This is what neither of you have been able to prove or disprove. You talk as if there is a collective of people, who are just waiting for the PS360 to gain motion controls, and there is a group of people who are waiting on an HD-enabled Wii.

False.
We are saying what if there are people who don't have any of these systems yet. Not that they were waiting for something specific, just that there MAY BE people on this planet who haven't been able to afford a system. Are we saying the motion controller is the breaking point? Fuck no. We're saying if these people who don't have systems yet want a system, Sony and Microsoft have taken away the only technological advantage the Wii had.

That. Is. What. We. Are. Saying.

[BreakABone]

Okay, I think Typhoid and I came to somewhat of an understanding over MSN, if not, I really don't want to continue down that road. My issue here, and its what I'm going back to is getting the Move into households/selling it.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

False.
We are saying what if there are people who don't have any of these systems yet. Not that they were waiting for something specific, just that there MAY BE people on this planet who haven't been able to afford a system. Are we saying the motion controller is the breaking point? Fuck no. We're saying if these people who don't have systems yet want a system, Sony and Microsoft have taken away the only technological advantage the Wii had.

That. Is. What. We. Are. Saying.

So...we can all agree Sony Move is going to fail, right? Is anybody going to bother actually arguing my point?

[BreakABone]

I think it will be given as an option, possibly. Just like the Analog stick was given as an option.

And really, we don't need to go any further than this. It is an OPTION, and only an option, and that is what has and will always hold back peripherals.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

And really, we don't need to go any further than this. It is an OPTION, and only an option, and that is what has and will always hold back peripherals.

Yup.. Just depends on if you consider it to be a controller and the emergence of a new industry standard or not.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Yup.. Just depends on if you consider it to be a controller and the emergence of a new industry standard or not.

Let me try and say this really, really slow.

It is a controller, no one will deny that, but it is also an add-on/peripheral, and even in best estimates, I see it selling under 20 million units over the lifetime.

It will NOT be a new industry standard, it won't even be the standard on the PS3, and that will the biggest problem with both this and Natal.

[Typhoid]

It will NOT be a new industry standard, it won't even be the standard on the PS3, and that will the biggest problem with both this and Natal.

I'll disagree with you on that.

I mean, it's no secret that the PS3 and 360 are superior machines in every way to the Wii. And it's no secret that the Wii sells good to the target audience of kids, casual gamers and adults who don't like typical games.

However, I do think it will be the new standard.
Think about it from a company standpoint:

In adopting motion sensing add-ons to it's system, both Sony and Microsoft (Talking about Natal) are shanking Nintendo hardcore, because the one thing Nintendo had going for it that was different than the other systems - is now available on the two superior machines.

This will most likely force Nintendo to do something they haven't done in years - make a competative system technologically.

Because, I mean - what does Nintendo have technologically, that the other two don't, or won't within a year?

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Because, I mean - what does Nintendo have technologically, that the other two don't, or won't within a year?

Nothing. It will have the price point advantage, and that's it. And as I pointed out before, according to scores, it has the worst games. So again, as I said before.. if someone wants both the full Ps360 experience, and the full Wii one, but can only afford to buy one or the other (or doesn't want to buy both).. This controller increases the odds that they'd go for the Ps360.

Don't get me wrong though, the games that are supported by the devices will need to be decent.. and I think Wii sports is the real trump card Nintendo has... so they need to be able to rip it off to some extent.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Let me try and say this really, really slow.

It is a controller, no one will deny that, but it is also an add-on/peripheral, and even in best estimates, I see it selling under 20 million units over the lifetime.

Under 20 million? Wow.. such a bold prediction on your part.

It will NOT be a new industry standard, it won't even be the standard on the PS3, and that will the biggest problem with both this and Natal.

I don't think so either (not this generation anyway). But I do think it will hurt Wii's sales, for every point your ignored.