Sony Motion Controller

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by TheSlyMoogle

It might, depending on the cost.

But I think odds are there are enough kids who got the wii 3 years ago who are old enough now to use the internet, find out about this, and bug the hell out of their parents for a PS3 and Motion thing. Probably sony will release a PS3/Motion bundle.

"BUT MOM IT'S THE NEW WII!"

I'm sorry. I don't think I made myself clear enough about my reasons for being absolutely sure that this thing will fail. So here's a link to a blog post I wrote in which I examine in more detail the past history of consoles and take into account all the prior successes of add-on peripherals: http://www.purevideogames.net/blog/?p=292

If you have any actual responses to my point instead of vague guesses about a fraction of the gaming audience, do let me know.

[Typhoid]

I think this is a great idea.
Maybe it will force Nintendo to make an actual system next time instead of another gimmick which can be made as an add-on for the other systems.

Sony just literally gave a big "fuck you" to Nintendo with this, and I think it's hilarious.

Not only with a PS3 do you get a blu ray player, and a PS3 itself, you also get the option for a Wii, with better graphics.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I think this is a great idea.
Maybe it will force Nintendo to make an actual system next time instead of another gimmick which can be made as an add-on for the other systems.

Sony just literally gave a big "fuck you" to Nintendo with this, and I think it's hilarious.

Not only with a PS3 do you get a blu ray player, and a PS3 itself, you also get the option for a Wii, with better graphics.

And worse games. Yeah, fuck you Nintendo! We don't need quality games, we got pretty lights and shiny things!

Originally Posted by Xantar

I'm sorry. I don't think I made myself clear enough about my reasons for being absolutely sure that this thing will fail. So here's a link to a blog post I wrote in which I examine in more detail the past history of consoles and take into account all the prior successes of add-on peripherals: http://www.purevideogames.net/blog/?p=292

If you have any actual responses to my point instead of vague guesses about a fraction of the gaming audience, do let me know.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Xantar

I'm sorry. I don't think I made myself clear enough about my reasons for being absolutely sure that this thing will fail. So here's a link to a blog post I wrote in which I examine in more detail the past history of consoles and take into account all the prior successes of add-on peripherals: http://www.purevideogames.net/blog/?p=292

If you have any actual responses to my point instead of vague guesses about a fraction of the gaming audience, do let me know.

It depends on if you consider it an add on, or a new type of controler.

I remember two generations ago, a certain company introduced the analog stick, and a certain other company adapted it late... and somehow it got popular enough with developers and users alike to the point that it became the "normal" controler.

Just saying..

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by TheGame

It depends on if you consider it an add on, or a new type of controler.

I remember two generations ago, a certain company introduced the analog stick, and a certain other company adapted it late... and somehow it got popular enough with developers and users alike to the point that it became the "normal" controler.

Just saying..

This is slight revisionist history, the dual shock was popular, but really became the industry standard with the PS2 and not the PSX.

Very few games required its use on the PSX.

And this is an add-on, no if, ands or buts about it.
a)One it may take up to 3 controllers for you to play all Move games (some use two Move controllers, some use a Move and a subcontroller)
b)You need ANOTHER add-on to get it to work with the system (the PSEye)
c)Unlike the Dualshock, this is coming 4 years into the console lifespan
d) After showing their games, Sony doesn't look to be serious about it. I'm sure e3 will offer up more support, but right now looks like they are strandling the line between putting this as an option in their normal games, and that worked out so well for the SixAxis.
e)Price as a barrier to entry. Yes, if you want a full Wii-Mote these days it costs you 80 bucks, or if you are smart enough you can get two games, and a full controller for 120 bucks. The Move as stated before has 3 different setups so you need 3 controllers plus a camera, plus the console, and unlike the Wii none of that comes standard.

Will the Move fail? Probably not
Is it a threat to Nintendo? If these early games are any indiction, no.
People seem to think that Nintendo lucked out with all their games, but as Sony is showing and as 3rd parties have shown for the last 3 years, putting motion controls in a game is easy, balancing it so that it is both enjoyable and doesn't hinder the experience is tough.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

This is slight revisionist history, the dual shock was popular, but really became the industry standard with the PS2 and not the PSX.

Very few games required its use on the PSX.

So are you saying this new controler will be required by more games on Ps3?

c)Unlike the Dualshock, this is coming 4 years into the console lifespan

Psx Launched at the end of 94, the Dual shock launched at the end of 97. (Or for US, mid 95 for Psx and mid 98 for Dual shock)... 3 years.. 4 years... same deal imo. I'm guessing at the time the DS had launched, Psx had more units sold then Ps3.

As for your other points... true, it requires more pieces of equipment, and more money.. but in the end, if someone likes both what the Ps3/360 offer and what the Wii offers, knowing that Sony offers the same gimmick (and more), might play against Nintendo's sales.

Who knows though.. it depends on how they advertize it, and if they get a good rip off for the Wii sports/fitness games.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by TheGame

So are you saying this new controler will be required by more games on Ps3?

That's actually kind of the opposite of what I'm saying.

The PlayStation Move won't take off because it isn't required with games.

Let's say, do you think games like Uncharted 3, next Ratchet, Modnation will use Move as primary controls? Or do you think it will be given an option?

Psx Launched at the end of 94, the Dual shock launched at the end of 97. (Or for US, mid 95 for Psx and mid 98 for Dual shock)... 3 years.. 4 years... same deal imo. I'm guessing at the time the DS had launched, Psx had more units sold then Ps3.

How do you not see how you prove my point?
The DualShock didn't become the standard until the PS2, and was lightly supported on the PSX, with rare games like Ape Escape taking full advantage of it.

The PlayStationMove is coming a year later, and is building itself into an even smaller niche because unlike the PSX controller to Dual Shock doesn't have the same layout so its not like you can make a game that uses the Move like a normal controller. And yes I know of SOCOM, but meant moving something like UC 2 or Killzone onto it.

As for your other points... true, it requires more pieces of equipment, and more money.. but in the end, if someone likes both what the Ps3/360 offer and what the Wii offers, knowing that Sony offers the same gimmick (and more), might play against Nintendo's sales.

Who knows though.. it depends on how they advertize it, and if they get a good rip off for the Wii sports/fitness games.

This is the part where you and to an extent Typhoid lose me on, after 3 years, do people still think it is the controller that sells the system? Do you think, people will be like "Oh motion controls and its HD!" and move on?

Let's look at the facts
a)The PS3/Xbox 360 have ALWAYS offered more on paper than the Wii. Better graphics, better sound, better online interface, DVD/blu-ray support, chat, etc, etc

b) People are buying/playing a game that looks like this,

Do you really think fancy graphics is the key to gaining that market?

c) Sony Move and to a certain extent Project Natal still can not replicate everything Nintendo does. Neither will be able to mimick Wii Fit based on current technology.

D)For all the crap Nintendo does wrong, what is the best selling online enabled game of this generation?

[TheGame]

On a side note before I start... someone needs to delete whatever picture is stretching this thread out. It's hella annoying.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

That's actually kind of the opposite of what I'm saying.

The PlayStation Move won't take off because it isn't required with games.

Let's say, do you think games like Uncharted 3, next Ratchet, Modnation will use Move as primary controls? Or do you think it will be given an option?

I think it will be given as an option, possibly. Just like the Analog stick was given as an option.

How do you not see how you prove my point?
The DualShock didn't become the standard until the PS2, and was lightly supported on the PSX, with rare games like Ape Escape taking full advantage of it.

I guess that depends on your definition of lightly supported. Pretty much all the games that came out for Psx after 98 supported it in some sense. All the games that could benifit from different levels of movement speed. Was it a requirement? No. Was it supported? Yup.

The Dual Shock ended up being the standard for the Psx in general. I think it's more "revisionist history" to say the controler without the sticks remained the standard.. Analog sticks didn't just become Psx's standard, it became an industry standard. And judging off of sales, something else might be becoming the industry standard now.

But who knows... If you agree that the wii mote could become the industry standard, then you look at it more like the Psx Analog stick then I do. If you think it can't become the industry standard, then you're somewhat in my ballpark of understanding how Nintendo tried to avoid direct competition with MS and Sony by offering something different.

The PlayStationMove is coming a year later, and is building itself into an even smaller niche because unlike the PSX controller to Dual Shock doesn't have the same layout so its not like you can make a game that uses the Move like a normal controller. And yes I know of SOCOM, but meant moving something like UC 2 or Killzone onto it.

That's true.

This is the part where you and to an extent Typhoid lose me on, after 3 years, do people still think it is the controller that sells the system? Do you think, people will be like "Oh motion controls and its HD!" and move on?

No, I honestly don't... don't think that they'll just say it's HD and move on. But you can't deny that the gimmick of the motion controls is what makes the console popular, because as you're about to say:

Let's look at the facts
a)The PS3/Xbox 360 have ALWAYS offered more on paper than the Wii. Better graphics, better sound, better online interface, DVD/blu-ray support, chat, etc, etc

And

b) People are buying/playing a game that looks like this,

So..

Do you really think fancy graphics is the key to gaining that market?

No, this generation motion controls are... apparently. Because it's definently not graphics, or hardware quality. And it also can't be game quality based off of scores.. things are more simple now... right?

c) Sony Move and to a certain extent Project Natal still can not replicate everything Nintendo does. Neither will be able to mimick Wii Fit based on current technology.

That will be a harsh blow.

D)For all the crap Nintendo does wrong, what is the best selling online enabled game of this generation?

I don't know. And I don't care... I just know the average Joe who wants both what Wii offers and what Ps360 offers are going to be swayed more towards Ps360 opposed to buying two systems or just Wii after these controls come out...

But like I said in my last post, it depends on how they advertize it, and if they get a good rip off for the Wii sports/fitness games. I think if they can't minic at least the sports games, they will probably fail.

[Typhoid]

I deleted the massive one.

[BreakABone]

I think it will be given as an option, possibly. Just like the Analog stick was given as an option.

And really, we don't need to go any further than this. It is an OPTION, and only an option, and that is what has and will always hold back peripherals.