Public option for healthcare

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Once again another thing that I addressed in the last post I made but didn't quote directly. But I'll just quote myself for the sake of not having you scroll back up again.

"Ok to clarify this, there's two ways I see private health insurance going if the public option is created.

1) Private insurance will try to compete with the public option by offering better quality at a more reasonable price.
2) Private insurance will not be able to compete with the quality that the public option offers at it's price, so it will move into being something only available to wealthy people.

If option one happens, and private insurance becomes more affordable, and they become more focused on quality and legitamate coverage.. then the health care system is fixed. Even if the public option sucks enough that private is still viable, it will force private insurance to make a change for a good to keep their base.

If option two happens, and private insurance pretty much dies and becomes something that only wealthy people will dish out the money for. Then it just proves that private insurance was broken to begin with. And I'd be the first to say good riddens.

The way I see it, if the public option isn't better then what is offered now.. or if the private companies are willing to make the changes they need to compete.. then people will not switch to it. In the end its an option.. if its not a better option then we have now, then there's no reason to switch."

In my opininon its win-win, if its relitively bad compared to what private insurance is willing to offer, it will only be for extreme cases that private inurance refuses to touch. But, if private insurance doesn't get their act together enough to compete, then it will become something bigger and private insurance will likely be pushed into something that the wealthy use only.

Game, I already addressed the illogical nature of your points one and two multiple time in this thread. Re-posting old arguments that we've already answered does not make our responses not exist.

It's not my or Bond's fault if you refuse to see them, or answer "Haha, Ok..." and then continue with your nonsensical argument ignoring the ideas and evidence placed in front of you. You are oblivious and I think perhaps have some kind of pathological disorder.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

You are oblivious and I think perhaps have some kind of pathological disorder.

Nah I just think you're getting old and can't accept that ideas other then yours work. And you don't seem to understand that I'm not in direct opposition to your concepts and ideas. You refuse to acknowlege that when I have an opinion supporting the public option that you disagree with, that I'm not using that idea as a direct arguement to what you have said. You don't seem to understand that I'm the only one here being open minded, and you are the only one being completly closed minded. You don't understand that you have no basis for bashing the logic of my posts and you have yet to present a valid example that shows otherwise.

And lastly, you don't understand that this whole discussion is about different concepts and ideas about how to fix healthcare, and that its based 100% off of opinion.

So yeah, if you feel like I ignored any of your points against private insurance feel free to bring it back up. But I think I've noted very clearly the things I agree with and disagree with. For opinions and facts that I do agree with, I usually don't waste as much time touching on.

[Professor S]

And lastly, you don't understand that this whole discussion is about different concepts and ideas about how to fix healthcare, and that its based 100% off of opinion.

No, a discussion is a EXCHANGE of ideas, and when you refuse to acknowledge another person's ideas and then IGNORE them when those ideas expose your own as folly, that is called having a speech or at the very best, a conversation with yourself. Also, opinions can change in the face of logical argument and contradictory evidence. This is what Socrates meant when he intended his form of debate to be "enlightening". You "style" enlightens nothing, and your ideas couldn't be less clear. Opinions are like assholes: everyone has one so in the having having one is meaningless. Those who treat their opinions with respect are the ones treated with some level of seriousness.

So yeah, if you feel like I ignored any of your points against private insurance feel free to bring it back up. But I think I've noted very clearly the things I agree with and disagree with. For opinions and facts that I do agree with, I usually don't waste as much time touching on.

I don't need to bring them back up, you need to recognize what I've already written IF you wish to have a normal conversation about... well... anything. And if you'd care to pay attention to anything we've said to you these many pages of thread, you'd see that we're not talking about the ideas you agree with, we're talking about your refusal to acknowledge/respond to any argument that contradicts yours on it's own terms. See, this is what I mean when I say you are oblivious.

Say what you will about my ideas, I certainly am no expert, but I at least acknowledge the ideas of others when in debate and that is certainly more respect than you've given anyone else in this conversation.

Nah I just think you're getting old and can't accept that ideas other then yours work.

No, we've exposed how you're ideas DON'T work and I guess you're too young to understand that (see how silly that is?). I'm open to ideas that work as soon as you propose one that has half a chance of providing universal care without sabotaging the quality of care for the vast majority of American citizens.

And you don't seem to understand that I'm not in direct opposition to your concepts and ideas. You refuse to acknowlege that when I have an opinion supporting the public option that you disagree with, that I'm not using that idea as a direct arguement to what you have said. You don't seem to understand that I'm the only one here being open minded, and you are the only one being completly closed minded. You don't understand that you have no basis for bashing the logic of my posts and you have yet to present a valid example that shows otherwise.

You don't seem to understand that when a doctor prescribes you meds, you are supposed to take them.

Originally Posted by TheGame

I follow the logic of your post from begining to end. I would rather not have a conversation on risk pooling though..

LOL!! Of course you would! GOODNIGHT, EVERYBODY. PLAY ME OUT, PORKY!

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

No, a discussion is a EXCHANGE of ideas, and when you refuse to acknowledge another person's ideas and then IGNORE them when those ideas expose your own as folly, that is called having a speech or at the very best, a concversation with yourself. So congratulations, you've achieve rhetorical masturbation.

No, we've exposed how you're ideas DON'T work and I guess you're too understand that. I'm open to ideas that work as soon as you propose one that has half a chance.

You've exposed for a fact that my ideas don't work? How do you define 'working'? How do I define 'working'? And I've acknowleged every point you've made before.

I don't need to bring them back up, you need to recognize what I've already written IF you wish to have a normal conversation about... well... anything. Say what you will about my ideas, I certainly am no expert, but I at least acknowledge the ideas of others when in debate and that is certainly more respect than you've given anyone else in this conversation.

I'm not sure what thread you have been reading, but its not this one apparently. The only examples you provided of things I ignored were invalid. I feel like I've acknowleged every point you have made on some level or another. You should give up on making this point unless you have something constructive to show for it.

When you guys tried to call me out on saying bond is replying out of context, I gave full valid examples of this. If you feel like I'm ignoring a point (even though I know I haven't), then feel free to bring it back up. Otherwise you should just give up on this point.

You have had nothing legitamate to add to this conversation for a long time.

You don't seem to understand that when a doctor prescribes you meds, you are supposed to take them.

LOL!! Of course you would!

Yup I didn't want to discuss it at work. The thing about the public option that makes it unlike normal insurance is that there is no effort to work with other insurance companies to establish a reasonable service level. It appeals to high risk people (and not just health risk, financial also) because they otherwise would have no other option. But unlike your "Catastrophic Care" idea it won't be ONLY for high risk people.

I find it funny that in your own idea, you presented an option that would have no choice but to be carried by tax payers forever. Granted that is a risk pool that some non profit heavily state supported programs do take on. But that is fundamentally different from a public option. Usually non-profit tax supported insurance options that deal with high risk patents will not even be available for lower risk customers to pay for, and they usually don't play off of the fact that normal private insurance is not legitamate insurance to pull in more people and more revenue.

[TheGame]

Way to edit your post. Not that I'm going to blame you for it.

So lets see...

No, a discussion is a EXCHANGE of ideas, and when you refuse to acknowledge another person's ideas and then IGNORE them when those ideas expose your own as folly, that is called having a speech or at the very best, a conversation with yourself. Also, opinions can change in the face of logical argument and contradictory evidence. This is what Socrates meant when he intended his form of debate to be "enlightening". You "style" enlightens nothing, and your ideas couldn't be less clear. Opinions are like assholes: everyone has one so in the having having one is meaningless. Those who treat their opinions with respect are the ones treated with some level of seriousness.

You're taking the high ground now after saying I was rhetorically masturbating? Hahahah.

Anyway, I think that your problem is that you want me to be 100% opposed to what you are saying when I am not. You want me to not acknowlege the downsides of the public option, even though I am. You're problem with me is that I have a realistic outlook on things, and that I'm willing to point out the faults in the public option openly.. but I point out those faults in a way to where I think that the positives of having that program out weigh the negatives.

In your world, the public option has no upside that you're willing to acknowlege, and you feel like you've proven 100% that it won't work. But the fact is that you haven't.

I'm open to ideas that work as soon as you propose one that has half a chance of providing universal care without sabotaging the quality of care for the vast majority of American citizens.

I'm not sure how many times I have to go over this, but the public option would be an OPTION. And that is the key reason why I accept it. If it provides less quality, then people simply will not use it unless its their only choice.