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Originally Posted by Dylflon
Hey Professor, if we want to base opinions solely on a person's past decisions and convictions, how about I recall the six-seven years of Bush rallying and supporting you did, calling him great at every turn and only stopping when it became a matter of public record that he is a fuck-up and has failed to accomplish much at all that has helped your country in any way.
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How many times do I have to say that I am not a fan of Bush? Honestly, how many times? You continue to try and pigeon hold me into the Karl Rove box but a
cursory review of my posts specifically about Bush show that the only thing I agree with him on were Iraq and taxes. I split from him on almost every other issue. Now maybe you think thats all there is when it comes to American politics or conservative values, but thats more a reflection of your ignorance than political reality.
If you want specifics on where I disagree with Bush, here's an idea... read some of my posts on the subject. There are MULTIPLE when I always have to clarify my stance because single minded clods want to assume the totality of my views based on the few we discuss here. My views are nuanced, and you should try that sometime.
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Let's recall that you supported the war in Iraq when others said it was going to be a quagmire. You ate up many of the reasons that the Republicans gave for being in there (and there were a lot of them that constantly changed) such as Hussein's ties to Al Quaeda (which was bullshit), WMDs (also bullshit), and to create democracy (once again; bullshit).
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Once again, you over simplify and twist my views to fit what you'd like them to be.
1) There were ties to Al Quaeda, but none
directly associated with those in the 9/11 attacks. And technically the Bush "doctrine" was against all states that sponsored terror, and Iraq was always a huge sponsor of terror accross the Middle East and Nothern Africa.
2) My arguments about WMD's centered around the assinine "Bush Lied and People Died" mantra from the left. My arguments, if you care to read them and not insert your own opinion and create them for me, were that Bush was WRONG, but did not LIE. There is a difference and the rest of the free world was WRONG as well, and most of the world's intelligence parroted our evidence. If you'd like to remember, the U.N. arguments were about what to do about Iraq's WMD's, not whether or not he HAD THEM, but considering the misinformation in this post I think your memory is either suffering greatly or simply activates based on convenience.
3) Creating democracy was not the reason to go to war rather than a reality of our current place there. No one can argue that we went to war solely to create democracy, but I believe that was a secondary objective that became primary after no WMD's were found. Creating a democracy was always the plan after the war and part of reconstruction just as it was after WW2, but not the reason to go.
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You argued in multiple paragraphs against anyone who had anything critical to say against the Bush presidency.
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Once again, what are you smoking? Do you even read my posts about Bush? There are areas that I agreed with Bush on, and those areas were the ones people
wanted to discuss at length. No one wanted to talk about a subject when I
agreed with them on a Bush subject... its just the arguments they remember. I guess thats human nature.
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But where are your pro-Bush convictions now that the economic bottom has fallen out of your economy?
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My "pro-Bush" convictions on the economy don't exist, but my belief in free trade still survives, even though I've always been a fan of
sensible regulation since the days of ENRON. And honestly don't pretend to make arguments about our economy until you can explain to me the role of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, there relation with government regulation, and the effects of the 1993 expansion of the Community Reinvestment Act. Do that, then get back to me. Until then you make sweeping generalizations about subjects you don't come close to understanding. But something tells me "business bad, taxes good" is the ldepth and breadth of your economic beliefs.
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Where are your convictions now that you are still in Iraq, locked in a war that was entered under false pretenses and can't be won?
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Can't be won? Are you paying attention? We are WINNING IT RIGHT NOW. 2/3's of the nation are under self-rule and the political consolidation is tightening up considerably, including reforms for women and minority religions/parties. When both democrats and Republicans admit the surge is working, guess what... IT'S WORKING. The only person that held out was Obama, ans even he eventually caved and admitted it was/is a success.
The only one's who think we're losing the Iraq war are those who WANT us to lose and haven't thought about the situation or read an article on the subject for nearly two years. Guess what category you're in...
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Where are your convictions now that Bush will most likely go down in history as your country's worst president?
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I kind of think Bush is one of the worst Presidents ever, domestically. He's an absentee landlord who spent way too much and let Fannie and Freddie get away with murder and cronyism. His legacy will be Iraq, though, and if that works how his place in history will be much more forgiving over time as domestic issues tend to correct far more quickly and fluctuate more than international issues. The current economic situation is likely already on the road to recovery even though we'll be in a recession for a year or so (depressed growth is better than none and any time the markets leave a free fall people will invest and the economy will grow out of it), but if Iraq works the affects of a democratic Middle Eastern nation could be felt for a thousand years
Why can't people like you ever hold me accountable for things I've actually said? You call me a ego-maniac, but at least when I quote your opinions they're based on your opinions and not some deranged fiction I've created that fits my emotion based world view.
In the end, I support McCain based on McCain's record, which is centered on fiscally conservative principles, with dashes of political reform and some social progressiveness when it comes to the environment and some other centrist values. Bush does not factor for me, but apparently when you look at a Republican thats all you see. It must be nice to not have to think about politics but still have a loud opinion.
As for Obama, he has no real record and the little he has is far left in practice, and that does not fit in with my political philosophy. I don't ever vote based on what a politician says he'll do. I vote based on what they've done. Words have no meaning compared to actions. I guess that makes me a ego-maniac?
And Jason1, the only "bad" people in politics are those that base the goodness of a person on their political affiliations. Be prepared to have a sad, angry little life focused on empty half of the glass.
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