American Stories, American Solutions

[Professor S]

Probably tonight or tomorrow. I think Obama has this sewed up pretty tight, though, with well over the 10 point lead I estimated he needed to win. It will be tighter than the media expects it to be, though.

I give McCain a 1 in 5 shot to pull it out at best.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Professor S

I give McCain a 1 in 5 shot to pull it out at best.

lol this isn't a game of craps

I'd say that we will more than likely see an election that is closer in the popular vote than predicted by the polls (as a result of bunk voting machines and white people who lied about voting for a black dude), but I still think Obama wins the electoral vote without flexing that much.

[Jason1]

Nah, even the popular vote wont be close. I mean, that depends what you call "Close."

Obama wins by at least 5 million votes, thats my prediction. Maybe 10 million.

[Dylflon]

Hey Professor, if we want to base opinions solely on a person's past decisions and convictions, how about I recall the six-seven years of Bush rallying and supporting you did, calling him great at every turn and only stopping when it became a matter of public record that he is a fuck-up and has failed to accomplish much at all that has helped your country in any way.

Let's recall that you supported the war in Iraq when others said it was going to be a quagmire. You ate up many of the reasons that the Republicans gave for being in there (and there were a lot of them that constantly changed) such as Hussein's ties to Al Quaeda (which was bullshit), WMDs (also bullshit), and to create democracy (once again; bullshit).

You argued in multiple paragraphs against anyone who had anything critical to say against the Bush presidency. But where are your pro-Bush convictions now that the economic bottom has fallen out of your economy? Where are your convictions now that you are still in Iraq, locked in a war that was entered under false pretenses and can't be won? Where are your convictions now that Bush will most likely go down in history as your country's worst president?


If we're going to judge solely by what has been said and done in the past, then I believe it fair to hold your judgement entirely suspect. If you supported Bush that much, and you're willing to support McCain as vehemently, then I don't think McCain is the kind of politician I'd want anything to do with.


I am honestly super excited to see Democrats back in power and have a much desired break from your pro-neo-con rants and rhetoric.

Though I'm sure we have at least 4 years of anti-Obama threads that you'll create any time Obama does anything.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

Hey Professor, if we want to base opinions solely on a person's past decisions and convictions, how about I recall the six-seven years of Bush rallying and supporting you did, calling him great at every turn and only stopping when it became a matter of public record that he is a fuck-up and has failed to accomplish much at all that has helped your country in any way.

Let's recall that you supported the war in Iraq when others said it was going to be a quagmire. You ate up many of the reasons that the Republicans gave for being in there (and there were a lot of them that constantly changed) such as Hussein's ties to Al Quaeda (which was bullshit), WMDs (also bullshit), and to create democracy (once again; bullshit).

You argued in multiple paragraphs against anyone who had anything critical to say against the Bush presidency. But where are your pro-Bush convictions now that the economic bottom has fallen out of your economy? Where are your convictions now that you are still in Iraq, locked in a war that was entered under false pretenses and can't be won? Where are your convictions now that Bush will most likely go down in history as your country's worst president?


If we're going to judge solely by what has been said and done in the past, then I believe it fair to hold your judgement entirely suspect. If you supported Bush that much, and you're willing to support McCain as vehemently, then I don't think McCain is the kind of politician I'd want anything to do with.


I am honestly super excited to see Democrats back in power and have a much desired break from your pro-neo-con rants and rhetoric.

Though I'm sure we have at least 4 years of anti-Obama threads that you'll create any time Obama does anything.

Nice. Put him in his place. Please keep in mind Dyflon not all of us Americans are bad, a lot of us are actually smart people and thats why Obama will win Tomorrow.

[Dylflon]

Jason, I don't think Americans are bad or dumb or anything else.

I just have a problem with people who are ego-maniacal bullies no matter what nationality they are.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

Hey Professor, if we want to base opinions solely on a person's past decisions and convictions, how about I recall the six-seven years of Bush rallying and supporting you did, calling him great at every turn and only stopping when it became a matter of public record that he is a fuck-up and has failed to accomplish much at all that has helped your country in any way.

How many times do I have to say that I am not a fan of Bush? Honestly, how many times? You continue to try and pigeon hold me into the Karl Rove box but a cursory review of my posts specifically about Bush show that the only thing I agree with him on were Iraq and taxes. I split from him on almost every other issue. Now maybe you think thats all there is when it comes to American politics or conservative values, but thats more a reflection of your ignorance than political reality.

If you want specifics on where I disagree with Bush, here's an idea... read some of my posts on the subject. There are MULTIPLE when I always have to clarify my stance because single minded clods want to assume the totality of my views based on the few we discuss here. My views are nuanced, and you should try that sometime.

Let's recall that you supported the war in Iraq when others said it was going to be a quagmire. You ate up many of the reasons that the Republicans gave for being in there (and there were a lot of them that constantly changed) such as Hussein's ties to Al Quaeda (which was bullshit), WMDs (also bullshit), and to create democracy (once again; bullshit).

Once again, you over simplify and twist my views to fit what you'd like them to be.

1) There were ties to Al Quaeda, but none directly associated with those in the 9/11 attacks. And technically the Bush "doctrine" was against all states that sponsored terror, and Iraq was always a huge sponsor of terror accross the Middle East and Nothern Africa.

2) My arguments about WMD's centered around the assinine "Bush Lied and People Died" mantra from the left. My arguments, if you care to read them and not insert your own opinion and create them for me, were that Bush was WRONG, but did not LIE. There is a difference and the rest of the free world was WRONG as well, and most of the world's intelligence parroted our evidence. If you'd like to remember, the U.N. arguments were about what to do about Iraq's WMD's, not whether or not he HAD THEM, but considering the misinformation in this post I think your memory is either suffering greatly or simply activates based on convenience.

3) Creating democracy was not the reason to go to war rather than a reality of our current place there. No one can argue that we went to war solely to create democracy, but I believe that was a secondary objective that became primary after no WMD's were found. Creating a democracy was always the plan after the war and part of reconstruction just as it was after WW2, but not the reason to go.

You argued in multiple paragraphs against anyone who had anything critical to say against the Bush presidency.

Once again, what are you smoking? Do you even read my posts about Bush? There are areas that I agreed with Bush on, and those areas were the ones people wanted to discuss at length. No one wanted to talk about a subject when I agreed with them on a Bush subject... its just the arguments they remember. I guess thats human nature.

But where are your pro-Bush convictions now that the economic bottom has fallen out of your economy?

My "pro-Bush" convictions on the economy don't exist, but my belief in free trade still survives, even though I've always been a fan of sensible regulation since the days of ENRON. And honestly don't pretend to make arguments about our economy until you can explain to me the role of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, there relation with government regulation, and the effects of the 1993 expansion of the Community Reinvestment Act. Do that, then get back to me. Until then you make sweeping generalizations about subjects you don't come close to understanding. But something tells me "business bad, taxes good" is the ldepth and breadth of your economic beliefs.

Where are your convictions now that you are still in Iraq, locked in a war that was entered under false pretenses and can't be won?

Can't be won? Are you paying attention? We are WINNING IT RIGHT NOW. 2/3's of the nation are under self-rule and the political consolidation is tightening up considerably, including reforms for women and minority religions/parties. When both democrats and Republicans admit the surge is working, guess what... IT'S WORKING. The only person that held out was Obama, ans even he eventually caved and admitted it was/is a success.

The only one's who think we're losing the Iraq war are those who WANT us to lose and haven't thought about the situation or read an article on the subject for nearly two years. Guess what category you're in...

Where are your convictions now that Bush will most likely go down in history as your country's worst president?

I kind of think Bush is one of the worst Presidents ever, domestically. He's an absentee landlord who spent way too much and let Fannie and Freddie get away with murder and cronyism. His legacy will be Iraq, though, and if that works how his place in history will be much more forgiving over time as domestic issues tend to correct far more quickly and fluctuate more than international issues. The current economic situation is likely already on the road to recovery even though we'll be in a recession for a year or so (depressed growth is better than none and any time the markets leave a free fall people will invest and the economy will grow out of it), but if Iraq works the affects of a democratic Middle Eastern nation could be felt for a thousand years

Why can't people like you ever hold me accountable for things I've actually said? You call me a ego-maniac, but at least when I quote your opinions they're based on your opinions and not some deranged fiction I've created that fits my emotion based world view.

In the end, I support McCain based on McCain's record, which is centered on fiscally conservative principles, with dashes of political reform and some social progressiveness when it comes to the environment and some other centrist values. Bush does not factor for me, but apparently when you look at a Republican thats all you see. It must be nice to not have to think about politics but still have a loud opinion.

As for Obama, he has no real record and the little he has is far left in practice, and that does not fit in with my political philosophy. I don't ever vote based on what a politician says he'll do. I vote based on what they've done. Words have no meaning compared to actions. I guess that makes me a ego-maniac?

And Jason1, the only "bad" people in politics are those that base the goodness of a person on their political affiliations. Be prepared to have a sad, angry little life focused on empty half of the glass.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Professor S

And Jason1, the only "bad" people in politics are those that base the goodness of a person on their political affiliations. Be prepared to have a sad, angry little life focused on empty half of the glass.

Ouch, that really really hurts man. You might not agree, but this is going to be a great day in American history.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Jason1

Ouch, that really really hurts man. You might not agree, but this is going to be a great day in American history.

Jason, in case you haven't figured it out yet, my opinion of you has nothing to do with your politics, but instead the mythical reasoning behind it. You live in a world of your own creation, seeing good and evil represented by Donkeys and Elephants.

I do not agree with liberals, but I think they have America's best interests at heart. They are just wrong, not evil. Unfortunately you're mind has been so diseased by partisan messages that you can't return that favor and instead write continuous one line hate filled barbs with zero content and 100% emotion.

Its not that I disrespect your vues, I have no respect for how little you think of them and the emptiness of your polical reasoning.

[KillerGremlin]

you guys all need to spank your monkeys and smoke some weed

it'll mellow you out so we can all hang out with the kool aid man

[Jason1]

I think someone pridicted this despite nay-sayers saying the popular vote would be close...who was that again?

Originally Posted by Jason1

Nah, even the popular vote wont be close. I mean, that depends what you call "Close."

Obama wins by at least 5 million votes, thats my prediction. Maybe 10 million.

[Bond]

I don't think politics should be akin to predicting a sporting event.

[KillerGremlin]

Someone I know voted Nader, I guess Nader got like 1% of the popular vote. I still maintain that our 2 party system is broken. I basically voted for the 'lesser of two evils' and I felt that many people did the same as well this election.