Why Voting for Obama is a Mistake

[Bond]

Allow me to build my case my examining the past two administrations:

The Clinton Years (1992-2000):

Bill Clinton was, more or less, an adherent to the third way. In my assessment, the philosophy of third way, or centrism, is the most effective way to govern a country. The problem with countries such as the United States, is that their electoral system, which is majoritarian / single-member-districts (smd), poorly reflects the political views of its citizens. Countries which have smd representation as opposed to plural representation end up electing politicians that are further away from the median voter than their plural counterparts. This is dangerous, because the smd system nominates, and eventually elects, either strong right or strong left candidates, whom are far away from the median voter.

While Bill Clinton was president, the Republicans controlled the Senate, creating an ideal environment for centrist policies to be passed and enacted. Under Clinton, the deficit was drastically reduced, and government spending was decreased. The same can be said for Ronald Reagan's administration. Reagan was able to pass meaningful legislation, while working together with the Democratic Senate.

The Bush Years (2000-2008):

When George Bush was first elected in 2000, it looked as though he would continue Clinton (and Tony Blair's) policy of the third way. In fact, Bush ran on a humble foreign policy, aka no nation building. Then September 2001 happened, and Bush abandoned his centrism in favor of neo-conservatism. Many commentators will improperly point out that Bush was a conservative, and this would be inaccurate. Bush increased the federal deficit, increased the size of government, and decreased our liberties. This is not true conservatism. Neo-conservatives within Bush's administration ceased the events of September 11th to regain power and move Bush from his centrist policies to right wing policies. These policies moved the Bush administration farther away from the median voter.

We now find ourselves at the end of the Bush administration, and nothing has been accomplished. Our deficit is out of control, the size of government has increased, our liberties are being compromised, social security is a tremendous problem, and medicare and medicaid are out of control.

The Future (2008-?):

This is where we get to the Obama part, and why voting for Senator Obama is a mistake. The reaction many voters will have is, "Bush was a Republican, nothing was accomplished, it's time to elect a Democrat, let's vote for Obama." This is reactionary thinking, and it does not work. Obama is very similar to Jimmy Carter and George McGovern, two far-left candidates who did not practice the third way. Obama is nothing like Bill Clinton, or even George Bush, he is a reactionary candidate to Bush's neo-conservative years. This will not help our country.

If Obama were to govern the country, he would run the country using his far-left ideology, which is far away from the median voter. Obama's administration would trigger a reactionary candidate from the Republican party, which would continue this harmful cycle.

In the end, nothing will be accomplished, and our deficit will increase, and the size of government will continue to grow. This is why we need to elect politicans who practice the third way, and not those who are reactionary.

[Vampyr]

I don't think McCain practices the third way either, so in the end it comes down who's extreme you prefer, and from my perspective the reasons to not vote for McCain mount far higher than any reasons I would have to not vote for Obama.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

I don't think McCain practices the third way either, so in the end it comes down who's extreme you prefer, and from my perspective the reasons to not vote for McCain mount far higher than any reasons I would have to not vote for Obama.

Honestly, inferring that a vote for McCain is to adhere to an "extreme" on the Republican side is to ignore reality. McCain has been one of the most moderate Republicans ever in the Senate or any other position, and his long voting record shows this, while Obama's very short and very left-wing record shows him to be the extreme candidate of the two, regardless of what the Obama worshippers in the media would have you believe. Like Churchill said: "Facts are stubborn things".

But what scares me the most is how Obama switches positions on issues depending on the aurience he is speaking with, so we end up knowing nothing about what he truly believes in, besides his belief that he should be President.

It's a bit frightening, to be honest.

[Vampyr]

I also liked how at the beginning of this race, Republicans were worried by the quesiton, "Is McCain conservative enough?" And he reassured them that he was, and he has slowly become more "conservative" sounding throughout the entire race, to appeal to the extreme type of voting that Bond indicated, and to win the votes of more Republicans.

Bond also stated that Bush wasn't truly conservative, due to his spending, and that he was a "neo-conservative". The ideas of being liberal and conservative are in the eye of the beholder. There is no such thing as "true conservative" and "new conservative". New conservative, by relativity, has become the true conservative. Elections are won and lost on moral grounds concerning abortion, homosexuality, and religion. The connotations of being conservative or liberal no long directly relate to finance, they relate to moral issues, which is what this debate will be either won or lost on. We would like to think it would be for other reasons, but it won't.

But there are enough important issues and topics that I agree with Obama on to keep me voting for him and not voting for McCain. I've read your criticisms of his arrogance and his youth and his inexperience. To this, I say I don't care. He brought about a revolution to a generation that had lost itself to apathy. This generation believes in him and his "pretty" speeches and his idea of change. If he fails to meet the standards they have set, they will be the first to burn him for it, because they're no longer apathetic, in part due to his own words.

Maybe the time has come for pretty speeches to be the winner of the day, maybe that is the change we need. I'm willing to take the chance.

[flunkie44]

I can't vote, lol!

Also, the majority of this forum is Canadian.

Hm.

[KillerGremlin]

Ah...Obama...flying around the world, giving speeches talking about how he is above and beyond America, how he is the global politician. I can't believe the world is eating this stuff up. At least McCain is sticking around, trying to gain the appeal of the people. I don't think McCain is perfect....but consider this.

Obama has inferred that he wants to launch an insurgency into Afghanistan. Obama's "withdrawal" from Iraq included leaving 50,000-75,000 troops stations in Iraq indefinitely. And, he said that he is willing to use force if Iran acts as a threat. Basically, his foreign policy looks a lot like Bush's...only he wants to send troops into Afghanistan. This means he will push for the UN to aid in his efforts, and as a result Europe will be expected to support his "cause."

Seriously, call me a greedy selfish bastard, America needs to step out of foreign affairs for a little bit. We need to get on top of this 1 trillion dollar debt that was accumulated in the past few years.

McCain is going to push to stabilize the situation in Iraq. And, hopefully after that, he will get this country back on track. I'm not sure what Obama is going to do..."withdrawal" from Iraq, and then go get Afghanistan?

I don't know who I want to vote for, right now I'm still reading up on both candidates. I just find it mildly discerning to know that Obama is campaigning in Europe trying to come off as some global savior.

I wish I knew more about politics, maybe I'll take a class.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Professor S

But what scares me the most is how Obama switches positions on issues depending on the aurience he is speaking with, so we end up knowing nothing about what he truly believes in, besides his belief that he should be President.

It's a bit frightening, to be honest.

You people are rediculous. Replacing Bush with Mcain would, in effect, be like pooping on vomit.

But really its all irrelevant, because Obama will win in November and it wont be close. He will destroy Mcain. The people of this country have finally wised up (at least the ones who arent idiots)

[Dyne]

Originally Posted by Jason1

You people are rediculous. Replacing Bush with Mcain would, in effect, be like pooping on vomit.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Jason1

You people are rediculous.

Heh, that's a great little pun, even if it was typo.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

I also liked how at the beginning of this race, Republicans were worried by the quesiton, "Is McCain conservative enough?" And he reassured them that he was, and he has slowly become more "conservative" sounding throughout the entire race, to appeal to the extreme type of voting that Bond indicated, and to win the votes of more Republicans.

Yes, unfortunately, for both parties, the money resides in the extreme wings. For a candidate to raise enough money to be viable they must cater toward the radicals.

Originally Posted by Jason1

You people are rediculous. Replacing Bush with Mcain would, in effect, be like pooping on vomit.

But really its all irrelevant, because Obama will win in November and it wont be close. He will destroy Mcain. The people of this country have finally wised up (at least the ones who arent idiots)

I don't mean to be rude, but it's this kind of petty partisanship that is ruining our country. Our nation has become so polarized that we are losing sight of where we came from. The founding fathers feared the institution of parties for this very reason.

Our country is in shambles, we cannot continue this fantasy forever. Our monetary system is built on what economists call "fiat currency," meaning there is absolutely no backing to our money. We can't live this way forever, and sooner than later our out of control spending and trying to police the world will catch up to us.

[KillerGremlin]

I was going to say...

if people realized, for 5 minutes, that the media is working with the government to polarize our country....

i mean, what's the real BIG differences between Obama and McCain...one is old, one is young, one is going to "change" the nation, the other is going to continue to hold the ground that Bush is leaving off on.

At the end of the day, our nation will still have a huge deficit to pay off, we will still have troops in Iraq, and we will still be involved in tons of global affairs.

But people don't seem to care about all this, or they choose not to, because it is far more interesting to get sucked into the media polarization and choose a side.

I know all the Canadians here and the foreigners don't care that we Americans [me, my generation] are going to have a huge debt to pay off. That makes me sad.

I'm down for taking out the Taliban, but I don't know if I'm down for sending large numbers of troops to Afghanistan.

I don't think Obama is going to clean the floor, I think when debate time comes around, consevative America is going to get a wake up. It will be another close election.

[gekko]

Originally Posted by Bond

In the end, nothing will be accomplished

Way to sum up every politics in one sentence. They all suck.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I'm down for taking out the Taliban, but I don't know if I'm down for sending large numbers of troops to Afghanistan.

I don't think Obama is going to clean the floor, I think when debate time comes around, consevative America is going to get a wake up. It will be another close election.

People want to believe that Obama will run away with this because people are tired of Republicans and tired of how things are and do anything for a change, but there are a lot of conservatives in America, and all McCain has to do towards the end of the election is say "I'm Pro-Life, anti-Gay, and a Christian. Obama isn't. Vote for me!"

And if he wins the election, that will be how he does it. It's how Bush did it, it's how other Republicans do it, and it seems to be working pretty well for them so far.

If I knew nothing else about any of the candidates, I would not vote for the "conservative" simply for that reason.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

People want to believe that Obama will run away with this because people are tired of Republicans and tired of how things are and do anything for a change, but there are a lot of conservatives in America, and all McCain has to do towards the end of the election is say "I'm Pro-Life, anti-Gay, and a Christian. Obama isn't. Vote for me!"

And if he wins the election, that will be how he does it. It's how Bush did it, it's how other Republicans do it, and it seems to be working pretty well for them so far.

If I knew nothing else about any of the candidates, I would not vote for the "conservative" simply for that reason.

I think Bush won the election because John Kerry was a joke.
At least the second time.

Anyway, you are probably right. So...it is still going to be a close race towards election time.

[birdman]

Wouldn't it be nice if a 3rd party could have a viable candidate?