Why Voting for Obama is a Mistake

[Vampyr]

I don't think McCain practices the third way either, so in the end it comes down who's extreme you prefer, and from my perspective the reasons to not vote for McCain mount far higher than any reasons I would have to not vote for Obama.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

I don't think McCain practices the third way either, so in the end it comes down who's extreme you prefer, and from my perspective the reasons to not vote for McCain mount far higher than any reasons I would have to not vote for Obama.

Honestly, inferring that a vote for McCain is to adhere to an "extreme" on the Republican side is to ignore reality. McCain has been one of the most moderate Republicans ever in the Senate or any other position, and his long voting record shows this, while Obama's very short and very left-wing record shows him to be the extreme candidate of the two, regardless of what the Obama worshippers in the media would have you believe. Like Churchill said: "Facts are stubborn things".

But what scares me the most is how Obama switches positions on issues depending on the aurience he is speaking with, so we end up knowing nothing about what he truly believes in, besides his belief that he should be President.

It's a bit frightening, to be honest.

[Vampyr]

I also liked how at the beginning of this race, Republicans were worried by the quesiton, "Is McCain conservative enough?" And he reassured them that he was, and he has slowly become more "conservative" sounding throughout the entire race, to appeal to the extreme type of voting that Bond indicated, and to win the votes of more Republicans.

Bond also stated that Bush wasn't truly conservative, due to his spending, and that he was a "neo-conservative". The ideas of being liberal and conservative are in the eye of the beholder. There is no such thing as "true conservative" and "new conservative". New conservative, by relativity, has become the true conservative. Elections are won and lost on moral grounds concerning abortion, homosexuality, and religion. The connotations of being conservative or liberal no long directly relate to finance, they relate to moral issues, which is what this debate will be either won or lost on. We would like to think it would be for other reasons, but it won't.

But there are enough important issues and topics that I agree with Obama on to keep me voting for him and not voting for McCain. I've read your criticisms of his arrogance and his youth and his inexperience. To this, I say I don't care. He brought about a revolution to a generation that had lost itself to apathy. This generation believes in him and his "pretty" speeches and his idea of change. If he fails to meet the standards they have set, they will be the first to burn him for it, because they're no longer apathetic, in part due to his own words.

Maybe the time has come for pretty speeches to be the winner of the day, maybe that is the change we need. I'm willing to take the chance.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

I also liked how at the beginning of this race, Republicans were worried by the quesiton, "Is McCain conservative enough?" And he reassured them that he was, and he has slowly become more "conservative" sounding throughout the entire race, to appeal to the extreme type of voting that Bond indicated, and to win the votes of more Republicans.

Yes, unfortunately, for both parties, the money resides in the extreme wings. For a candidate to raise enough money to be viable they must cater toward the radicals.

Originally Posted by Jason1

You people are rediculous. Replacing Bush with Mcain would, in effect, be like pooping on vomit.

But really its all irrelevant, because Obama will win in November and it wont be close. He will destroy Mcain. The people of this country have finally wised up (at least the ones who arent idiots)

I don't mean to be rude, but it's this kind of petty partisanship that is ruining our country. Our nation has become so polarized that we are losing sight of where we came from. The founding fathers feared the institution of parties for this very reason.

Our country is in shambles, we cannot continue this fantasy forever. Our monetary system is built on what economists call "fiat currency," meaning there is absolutely no backing to our money. We can't live this way forever, and sooner than later our out of control spending and trying to police the world will catch up to us.

[KillerGremlin]

I was going to say...

if people realized, for 5 minutes, that the media is working with the government to polarize our country....

i mean, what's the real BIG differences between Obama and McCain...one is old, one is young, one is going to "change" the nation, the other is going to continue to hold the ground that Bush is leaving off on.

At the end of the day, our nation will still have a huge deficit to pay off, we will still have troops in Iraq, and we will still be involved in tons of global affairs.

But people don't seem to care about all this, or they choose not to, because it is far more interesting to get sucked into the media polarization and choose a side.

I know all the Canadians here and the foreigners don't care that we Americans [me, my generation] are going to have a huge debt to pay off. That makes me sad.

I'm down for taking out the Taliban, but I don't know if I'm down for sending large numbers of troops to Afghanistan.

I don't think Obama is going to clean the floor, I think when debate time comes around, consevative America is going to get a wake up. It will be another close election.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I'm down for taking out the Taliban, but I don't know if I'm down for sending large numbers of troops to Afghanistan.

I don't think Obama is going to clean the floor, I think when debate time comes around, consevative America is going to get a wake up. It will be another close election.

People want to believe that Obama will run away with this because people are tired of Republicans and tired of how things are and do anything for a change, but there are a lot of conservatives in America, and all McCain has to do towards the end of the election is say "I'm Pro-Life, anti-Gay, and a Christian. Obama isn't. Vote for me!"

And if he wins the election, that will be how he does it. It's how Bush did it, it's how other Republicans do it, and it seems to be working pretty well for them so far.

If I knew nothing else about any of the candidates, I would not vote for the "conservative" simply for that reason.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

People want to believe that Obama will run away with this because people are tired of Republicans and tired of how things are and do anything for a change, but there are a lot of conservatives in America, and all McCain has to do towards the end of the election is say "I'm Pro-Life, anti-Gay, and a Christian. Obama isn't. Vote for me!"

And if he wins the election, that will be how he does it. It's how Bush did it, it's how other Republicans do it, and it seems to be working pretty well for them so far.

If I knew nothing else about any of the candidates, I would not vote for the "conservative" simply for that reason.

I think Bush won the election because John Kerry was a joke.
At least the second time.

Anyway, you are probably right. So...it is still going to be a close race towards election time.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Professor S

But what scares me the most is how Obama switches positions on issues depending on the aurience he is speaking with, so we end up knowing nothing about what he truly believes in, besides his belief that he should be President.

It's a bit frightening, to be honest.

You people are rediculous. Replacing Bush with Mcain would, in effect, be like pooping on vomit.

But really its all irrelevant, because Obama will win in November and it wont be close. He will destroy Mcain. The people of this country have finally wised up (at least the ones who arent idiots)

[Dyne]

Originally Posted by Jason1

You people are rediculous. Replacing Bush with Mcain would, in effect, be like pooping on vomit.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Jason1

You people are rediculous.

Heh, that's a great little pun, even if it was typo.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Jason1

You people are rediculous. Replacing Bush with Mcain would, in effect, be like pooping on vomit.

But really its all irrelevant, because Obama will win in November and it wont be close. He will destroy Mcain. The people of this country have finally wised up (at least the ones who arent idiots)

I get the feeling that you think things are true because you put them into words and they had the ability to make it out your mouth.

1) McCain is nothing like Bush, and he has one of the most non-partisan voting records in the history of congress. He votes what he believes. Can you even tell me what Obama believes in besides himself, and by the way, "change" and "hope" don't count. Both of those stake platitudes are empty vessels that are intended to be filled by rubes.

2) You keep saying the election won't even be close... yet most polls show McCain continually staying with, and gaining on, Obama. I even find this shocking considering this the the most biased election coverage I've EVER seen on any level of the media, but facts are stubborn things and I can't deny them (though you do a good job of that). So what exactly do you base that statement on?

Do you operate on any other level in politics than the purely emotional?

Bond, what would you replace our dollar on now, instead of our ability to produce? Honestly, there isn't enough gold out there to back our dollar anymore, and since we moved to a fiat currency our country has experienced the most economic success of any nation in the history of the world. People keep saying that "we can't do this forever", but the problem is, that is purely based on speculation and reactionary responses to current economic events.

History has proven our economy to be resilient and over 10 and 20 years cycles to exprience far more success than failure, no matter what Ron Paul tries and sell the public. As for isolationism, well, I won;t even go into that as it has caused much more death and torment in the world than I'd like to comment on.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Bond, what would you replace our dollar on now, instead of our ability to produce? Honestly, there isn't enough gold out there to back our dollar anymore, and since we moved to a fiat currency our country has experienced the most economic success of any nation in the history of the world. People keep saying that "we can't do this forever", but the problem is, that is purely based on speculation and reactionary responses to current economic events.

History has proven our economy to be resilient and over 10 and 20 years cycles to exprience far more success than failure, no matter what Ron Paul tries and sell the public. As for isolationism, well, I won;t even go into that as it has caused much more death and torment in the world than I'd like to comment on.

I have no idea what the dollar could be backed with now, probably nothing. I suppose I don't think the issue of a fiat money system is a tremendous problem by itself, but when it's coupled with a six trillion dollar debt, a large part of which is owed to China, rising inflation, and an ever increasing government, I do see a problem.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Bond

I have no idea what the dollar could be backed with now, probably nothing. I suppose I don't think the issue of a fiat money system is a tremendous problem by itself, but when it's coupled with a six trillion dollar debt, a large part of which is owed to China, rising inflation, and an ever increasing government, I do see a problem.

I can't disagree with that, but out of those issues you raised, fiat currency is the least of our worries.

[Jason1]

Originally Posted by Professor S

2) You keep saying the election won't even be close... yet most polls show McCain continually staying with, and gaining on, Obama. I even find this shocking considering this the the most biased election coverage I've EVER seen on any level of the media, but facts are stubborn things and I can't deny them (though you do a good job of that). So what exactly do you base that statement on?

Im basing that on what I believe. We cant rely on any polls, thats been proven before, one poll could show it this way another could show it a different way. Im just basing that statement on a general feeling I have...Im not really basing it on anything. So I ask that you just wait, because come november I will be proven right and I'll probably link back to threads like these just to prove my point.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Jason1

Im basing that on what I believe. We cant rely on any polls, thats been proven before, one poll could show it this way another could show it a different way. Im just basing that statement on a general feeling I have...Im not really basing it on anything. So I ask that you just wait, because come november I will be proven right and I'll probably link back to threads like these just to prove my point.

I hope you do, because I've always had a horrible track record when it comes to political issues, like when I guaranteed that Bush would win in 2004 and Leiberman would win as an Independent in 2006...

For the record, my current prediction is that Obama will win by a thin margin, mainly because the media refuses to pay attention to anything he actually says and instead fellate him every chance they get.