Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama

[Dylflon]

Originally Posted by Professor S

I wasn't comparing them, I responded to Germs post that compared the tactics used to attack Democrats. I actually think Kerry is about 500% more qualified to be president than Obama.

I can respect you disagreeing with me, but on what are you basing this on? Obama's state and Senatorial record make him one of the most left wing, if not THE most left wing politician in America. Do you think America leans that far left?

Also, can anyone tell me in detailed terms what it is about Obama's policies and platforms that they like so much? I can't think of a single thing he's said that doesn't involve stale platitudes like "Brand New Day", "Now is Our Time" or "Keep Hope Alive"... sorry, wrong populist motivational speaker...

Yeah! Voting for a left wing candidate would be fucking stupid! I mean, can't you see how many amazing things that the right wingers did for us these last 8 years. Americans would be stupid to suggest radical change.

I think the best course of action is to maintain a conservative stance. Let's just not think about any drastic changes here. The status quo is what matters.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

Yeah! Voting for a left wing candidate would be fucking stupid! I mean, can't you see how many amazing things that the right wingers did for us these last 8 years. Americans would be stupid to suggest radical change.

I think the best course of action is to maintain a conservative stance. Let's just not think about any drastic changes here. The status quo is what matters.

I was asking an honest question. And my comments weren't against democrats in general, they were about ONE PERSON: Barak Obama. I believe my comments about Hillary and John Kerry even bordered on flattering. I simply asked what was it about his policies and platforms that people found so attractive. Germ didn't mention specific policies, but considering his love of Dennis "Beam Me Up" Kucinich, I can only guess I agree with zero of his political thinking, and thats ok.

Dyflon, don't deflect my question by throwing everything back on the Republicans/Conservatives. I was asking about issues, not personal bias' or poltical barbs. I honestly want to know what it is about Obama that they like so much. He is amazingly elusive in avoiding the subject of his poltical beliefs beyond those that can be wrapped up in almost religious rhetoric.

This is a huge issue that he will have to face in a general election. If he will not get specific, because McCain will be VERY specific in his ideas and policies, he'll have to rely on two things: Experience (he has none) and his continued "I Have a Dream" speeches, and they are already growing old, and will only go more stale as the Democrat primary continues, probably up to the convention.

Now Obama's voting record will also come up, and he is one of the most, if not THE most liberal Senators, and for this argument I won't say that's a bad thing, but its a set of ideals that the majority of the American people still don't identify with. The American idependent voter is not a liberal, and never has been, they just aren't conservative. The independent voter is what elected Bush, and it wasn't just the swiftboaters that did it. Kerry's comments about differing American policy to world opinion did as much, if not more, to sink his campaign.

My thoughts on this aren't about who I'd like to be President, they are about the realities of politics in this country. I'm not saying Obama doesn't have a chance because I don't want him to be President (and I don't), I'm saying it because once you start adding up all these points, it leads to him getting beaten in the general.

Hillary is your best shot.

[The Germanator]

Originally Posted by Professor S

\ Germ didn't mention specific policies, but considering his love of Dennis "Beam Me Up" Kucinich, I can only guess I agree with zero of his political thinking, and thats ok.

Just to respond to this bit...I'd much rather have a president who might believe in UFOs (Kucinich) then one who makes asinine jokes about war. (McCain)


I feel like McCain should have been ripped for this, but nah...I guess we'll be in both Iraq and Iran until 2108.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by The Germanator

Just to respond to this bit...I'd much rather have a president who might believe in UFOs (Kucinich) then one who makes asinine jokes about war. (McCain)


I feel like McCain should have been ripped for this, but nah...I guess we'll be in both Iraq and Iran until 2108.

For the record that was an honest "thats ok", I wasn't being sarcastic. I don't expect everyone in the world to agree with my political opinion, and my disagreements with Kucinich have nothing really to do with his belief in aliens, its his belief in the U.S.S.A. Your political affiliations are yours, and I won't say they're bad even if I disagree with them. I'm trying to be better about that.

I can't listen to his joke as I'm at work and have no sound, but if anyone could make a joke based on war it would be McCain. The man spent 5 years being tortured in the Hanoi Hilton when he could have gone home, but he stayed because he refused to be treated differently than any other prisoner. That buys him a little room to breath when it comes to politically incorrect war jokes, IMO.

Amd why does everyone keep trying to DEFLECT THE ISSUE. I'm talking about Barak here, NOT McCAIN. McCain is not the answer to Barak's obvious political weaknesses. Once again, this isn't about preference, its about political realities.

As for remaining in these countries, its a definite regardless of who is president. We''re still in Korea, we're still in GERMANY and JAPAN for Christ's sakes. That doesn't make us imperialist, it makes us sensible. Japan, Korea and Germany all needed us there to help rebuild and maintain order after the end of those wars. It took years to rebuild Germany and DECADES to rebuild Japan. To think we'll just pull out of Iraq if Barak is elected is naive, and if he did pull us out it would be disastrous for reasons that should be obvious.

[Dylflon]

Strangler, I wasn't arguing with you per se so much as I was expressing my distaste that being left leaning is automatically a thing that can break the deal for you as a politician in the states even after the 8 years you all just went through.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

Strangler, I wasn't arguing with you per se so much as I was expressing my distaste that being left leaning is automatically a thing that can break the deal for you as a politician in the states even after the 8 years you all just went through.

I don't think left leaning is something that can break you in the US. Barak is not left leaning, his voting record and stated beliefs would put him more sprinting left and digging a foxhole. A socialist by any other name is still a socialist.

Americans in general share strong opinions about a few issues:

1) Freedom - Any healthcare program that removes the ability of the common person to choose their own doctor, specialist, etc. will be shot down. Its too personal a choice. You can translate that to any social program aimed at the middle class. I believe that there should be a more comprehensive plan, but completely socializing it would be a disaster and most Americans realize this. Thats why the Clinton plan was utterly squashed in the 90's.

2) Sovereignty - In the end Americans do not care what France, England, Germany, Canada, etc. think about what America should do. We like to have a dialogue open, but in the end Americans believe that our leader's responsibility is to national interests, and not international interests. Diplomacy is going to be a HUGE weaknes for Barak

3) Safety - People are tired of Iraq, but most Americans realize we cannot leave anytime soon. Barak needs to come to that if he expects to win.

These are concerns that the average American has, IMO, and until Barak can move himself away from those ideas, involve consumer choice in a national healthcare plan, guarantee he will choose what is in America's best ineterests before those of the UN and come up with a reasionable plan for withdrawing from Iraq, he will not win any national election. At least thats how I see it.