Wii: A Threat to Gaming?

[BreakABone]

Not exactly sure how to word this, but there seems to have popped up a new crop of gaming articles/gamers, who see nothing but gloom and doom for the Wii. While this isn't exactly new business for the Wii...let alone Nintendo, the stance a lot of them is taking... if off-putting to say the least.

A lot of people are painting the picture of the Wii leading to the death of gaming. Even though without it, the industry has actually been on a downward slope.

This goes behind the Wii is a fad (wishful thinking) to people actually expressing that they hope it implodes on itself with the current price drops for the 360 and the PS3.

Now, I'm sure most of you picked up I'm a huge fan of the console. It has offered some of the best games this generation IMO. On the other hand, I obviously can not turn an eye to the fact that it also features it fair share of games that I wouldn't use to clean-up after a dog.

The thing I don't get though is why is there so much anger towards the Wii? Is it because people fear it is pushing games in a direction they don't like (whether it be more "casual" or motion controls) or is there just something about Nintendo?

And as always, the reason I bring this up is two-fold.

-There was a podcast last week... I believe called Invisible War, which was discussing the PS3 price-drop an how it most certainly meant doom for the Wii. They spoke about how it has nothing to offer over the other two, and 3rd parties would flock. As far as I can decipher, the Wii has hardly ever offered anything more than motion over the other two but it hasn't stopped it from outselling both combined for almost 3 years. And honestly, 3rd party support could hardly get worse.

And the second is this article from IGN,
http://au.games.ign.com/articles/101/1019337p1.html

You can read for yourself.

And I guess one more question though a separate idea, but curious what the hell is the deal with all this casual/hardcore labeling nonsense?

[Dyne]

I have no idea. When people complain that there's no games for their Wii, I say, what the fuck? Madworld JUST came out, along with Wii Sports Resort and Tiger Woods 2010. There's also a ton of others. Punchout, Excite Bots, EA Active, and Grand Slam Tennis. Those are all very different genres, too.

I mean, sure, it's not Zelda, but how often would they expect a good Zelda game? Why don't they pick up Rune Factory which I hear is an awesome mix of Zelda and Harvest Moon?

I say that apathy towards Wii is a lot more powerful than a few nerd critics getting angry at it for being "casual."

I think the problem is that 2008 was the best autumn of gaming ever, and Wii fell flat and had no representation other than goddamn Animal Crossing, which was a rehash of the DS game. Wii Sports Resort and Motion Plus are enough to revive it, but maybe it's too late.

Madworld was the true test that EVERY publisher was watching. They said if it didn't sell, then people would give up hope. And Madworld failed those expectations, but it's still an amazing game. Just goes to show you that, in the end, sales mean nothing.

[BreakABone]

That's another thing I never get... when people say the Wii has no games. In any one month, it may not get too many classics, but I mean the library has a broad range of games for most all tastes. I could think of dozens of Wii games I would recommend people, but most just brush them off.

And then there is WiiWare, which I mostly blame Nintendo for, but it has a ton of great games, but between a lack of demos and no outside advertisement, the stuff goes unnoticed.

I mean it has online Tetris, Bomberman, a new Mr. Driller, a new Monkey Island game (that isn't a remake), Strong Bad, Lost Winds, Nyx, Lit and Swords and Solider (a 2D RTS, you don't see many of those around these parts), but most people would never have heard of any of them.

[Dyne]

Wii Ware is fantastic but then there's also the virtual console! There's a million classics that I'd never played, especially Star Fox 64, Super Metroid, F-Zero 64, and all the Soldier Blades.

If there's nothing in Wii's catalog then there's certainly something in both WiiWare or VC. If it's still not there, then you probably should just give up or buy a 360/PS3.

[Swan]

(I apologize if does not make sense, I have been drinking)

I am not going to say that the wii has no good games its that they come far and few between. Coming from a non Wii owner it just doesn't have enough games to merit me buying it.

Most of the games on the Wii tend to appeal to the casual gamer. And when I say casual gamer I mean the type who either plays to unlock more modes for friends or just when friends are there. Some of the early casual gamer games (at least in my mind) were DDR and Guitar Hero. Guitar Hero more so because people tend to be more into standard rock instead of J-Pop.

I will think of more when I am soberish

[Fox 6]

The Wii has pushed itself into a zone of family friendly gaming, pick up and play gaming, awful titles, and horrible third party support. There may be good games, but all the failures have just made me ignore anything that they do. Combine that with the fact that im completely satisfied with my 360, and there you go.

[Angrist]

I think many people are pissed with Nintendo. They are the industry leader with what? A tiny white box which resuses 6 year old technology. And adds motion control.

Up to the last generation, hardcore gamers always decided what console would win the war. But now for the first time it's decided by casual gamers. Somewhere on a subconscious level, the hardcores must hate that.

They're not interested in the Wii. They're furious with it. As gamers they think they want good graphics, they think they hate motion controls. So they ignore it. They keep anticipating the Wii's downfall as their ultimate revenge.

Sucks for them that they're missing out on a very fun console.

[Fox 6]

Its all personal preference. These are failures to attract me to the system. They have failed to interest me in their product, so I see see it as an inferior machine in comparison to other consoles.

[TheGame]

Fable II 2.6 million sales, Mass effect 1.6 million sales.

Respectable numbers but..

Wii Sports 47 million sales, Wii Play 22.98 million sales, Wii fit 21.82 million sales, Mario Kart Wii 17.39 million sales, Super Smash Brothers brawl 8.02 million sales, Mario Party 8 6.72 million sales.

So yeah, they just worked their asses off for their 1-2 million sales when games with a little gimick and short development time smoked them.. I'm not saying that companies will follow suit. But with Wii winning this generation its likely that people will catch on. And I don't really like that idea.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Because they're slowing the progress of the industry by being sucsessful at being cheap. I feel that there sucsess is going to cause future generations to move away from higher budget high quality games and focus more on what will sell the most with the smallest amount of risk. Which is kinda what was brought up in the RPG thread.. No companies are willing to take the time out to make a epic good RPG because its a big risk that won't reward as well as making a simple overpriced game or remake for Wii..

And seeing systems like Wii sucseed by purposely moving away from pumping out cutting edge technology is not going to help..

The Wii isn't slowing the industry, I think it is showing people that not everyone wanted cutting edge graphics. As the old adage goes, bigger is not always better.

The simple fact of the matter is if technology was all that mattered to gamers, the 360 or the Ps3 would have sold at a much better rate. Hell the 360 has been priced cheaper than the Wii for over a year and has yet to ecplise its sale on a single month basis.

And you say, people aren't taking risks. Embracing a new way to play a game seems like a much bigger risk than providing the same experience we've had for the last 20 years with a new shine of paint.

And again, you are boiling down the Wii library to what you want to see... you are making it sound like it isn't possible to make good looking, epic games on the Wii... what is stopping any developer from doing that... I know you are going to bring up the casual games that sell well, but there are dozens upon dozens of them that crash and burn.

And its not like Sony and MS are innocent in this whole affair... Viva Pinata, Buzz, Eyepet, Scene It, You're in the Movies... Home.. etc... etc...

I don't fault them for wanting to make money, that's just the nature of any company. I don't like that they're making money by slowing overall progress of the industry.

Again, I don't see them slowing the nature of the industry. If the industry wants to move forward it will move forward, but at the current time it doesn't seem like better graphics are the only solution..

Originally Posted by TheGame

Fable II 2.6 million sales, Mass effect 1.6 million sales.

Respectable numbers but..

Wii Sports 47 million sales, Wii Play 22.98 million sales, Wii fit 21.82 million sales, Mario Kart Wii 17.39 million sales, Super Smash Brothers brawl 8.02 million sales, Mario Party 8 6.72 million sales.

I don't like how you lump Smash Bros and Mario Kart in there. And to a lesser extent, Mario Party.

Besides the fact that Smash Bros and Mario Kart are extremely well made games with depth and tons of features, they are also not new franchises, and have always sold well even on the GCN which was not nearly as popular as the Wii.

Wii Sports also shouldn't count because outside of Japan it comes with the console.

So yeah, they just worked their asses off for their 1-2 million sales when games with a little gimick and short development time smoked them.. I'm not saying that companies will follow suit. But with Wii winning this generation its likely that people will catch on. And I don't really like that idea.

Do you know how much time went into each of the games above? I mean I wouldn't expect too much effort from Wii Play.

But the responsiveness of Wii Sports... had to have taken Nintendo a lot of time and testing.
Smash Bros has a comparable time frame to Mass Effect and those other games. And one hell of a budget.
Same with Mario Kart.

The simple fact of the matter is, Wii or not, I think this generation just proved there is something admist in the industry. Stuff like GTA and Halo all sell well out the gate and then drop like a rock because "hardcore" gamers have extremely short attention span so they front load a game, but then tht audience moves on, what does that do for building a decent userbase if you don't know that they will be loyal come next generation, or if they will even buy your games.


But yeah, this thread mostly got off topic, and I guess TheGame is the only one who answered it properly as apparently he does see the Wii as a threat to the industry, but for rather selfish reasons it seems.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

But yeah, this thread mostly got off topic, and I guess TheGame is the only one who answered it properly as apparently he does see the Wii as a threat to the industry, but for rather selfish reasons it seems.

*shrug* if that's how you see it. I wouldn't expect a loyal Nintendo fan like yourself to understand.

I liked where the industry was headed with Genesis/SNES, Psx, and Ps2.. but I don't like the new direction with Wii. And yes it boils down to my personal game preferences and how I would like to see the industry evolve from a technical standpoint.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by TheGame

*shrug* if that's how you see it. I wouldn't expect a loyal Nintendo fan like yourself to understand.

I liked where the industry was headed with Genesis/SNES, Psx, and Ps2.. but I don't like the new direction with Wii. And yes it boils down to my personal game preferences and how I would like to see the industry evolve from a technical standpoint.

I'm just a bit curious... what Wii games have you played?

I'm sure we did this same song and dance last generation with the Cube/Xbox/Ps2.

And not that I usually knock someone's personal preferences, but you complain about the direction the Wii is leading the industry, but you yourself wouldn't even buy a HD console until it was priced much much cheaper... and then you bought like GTA IV and Madden... both franchises... that aren't risky... and really don't evolve the industry much...

I'm just saying...

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I'm just a bit curious... what Wii games have you played?

A lot of them? Out of 360, Wii, and Ps3 I've played Wii by far the most, followed by 360, and Ps3 the least amount. (And as you know, I own a Ps3 now and have been putting some time into it, but its going to take weeks for me to even catch up to 360, if I don't lose interest first)

And not that I usually knock someone's personal preferences, but you complain about the direction the Wii is leading the industry, but you yourself wouldn't even buy a HD console until it was priced much much cheaper... and then you bought like GTA IV and Madden... both franchises... that aren't risky... and really don't evolve the industry much...

I'm just saying...

So we're switching the conversation to being about what I'm willing to buy?

I didn't feel Ps3, Wii or 360 were worth the price until recently. I can safely say that I've played every game that I've been interested in this generation outside of the new Batman game. In my opinion this is the worst generation of gaming I've been old enough to experience.

So do you have a point ?

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by TheGame

*shrug* if that's how you see it. I wouldn't expect a loyal Nintendo fan like yourself to understand.

I don't know how 'loyal' of a Nintendo fan BaB is.

This generation has really disappointed me. Maybe I've just been to busy since I've been in college during this generation, but nothing has really made me jump out of my seat. Even my DS ended up being incredibly disappointing compared to my GBA. I'll remember this gen as:
-Motion Controls
-Super Expensive Consoles
-Red Rings of Death
-Sequels, Sequels, and more fucking Sequels
-Online Console gaming still SUCKS ASS, especially what Nintendo has. The only good thing about the Wii is it is very easy to sync with a Wireless network.
-TF2 (reinforcing my belief that PC Gaming > Console Gaming)

Seriously, the N64/PSX/GBA marked the last consoles that really blew my pants off and tickled my jewels. The Gamecube/Xbox/PS2 left me with some pretty sweet memories...GTA3/Vice City, Twisted Metal Black, Pikmin, Wind Waker, Halo, Jet Set Radio Future....

I just haven't felt impacted in a major way by the new consoles. I remember when the SNES blew my mind (I'm a little too young for the NES). I remember when the GBA blew my mind. When the Genesis blew my mind. I remember going through 2 double A batteries every few days with my GBC....oh man.

This generation is definitely one where I have gone back and dugg up some old PC titles. Been playing me some Counter-Strike...and I have been going back and visiting some classic titles like Sonic and Sonic 2 on the Genesis. And NBA Jam. Damn!

I dunno...maybe I need to go find the fun in gaming. As for motion controls. They are so restrictive....I pretty much share the same thoughts as Yahtzee...
Motion Controls in Casual gaming and in Serious gaming:
Casual
-Works great for some games: Wii Golf
-Is absolutely horrible for other games like basketball, bowling, boxing, canoeing
-Is decent for games like Baseball

Serious
-Can add depth to serious gaming
-Can make serious gaming MORE annoying
-People game because it is a RECREATIONAL ACTIVITY. When people game they want to sit on their ass and do minimal "waggling" as Yahtzee describes it. Amen to that.

Anyway....I can't wait to put that Sony Anal Wand in my ass.

[Angrist]

I don't really get the frustration that TheGame and other gamers have with the Wii. How does it hold back development? Did the people who bought Halo, Morrowind, Warcraft III, etc. suddenly stop buying those games because there's a Wii now?
There is still a market for 'high quality' titles as you call them (which I think is not a fair description). But the market is slowely realizing that creating better graphics and bigger worlds costs more money that it used to. But games still sell for the same price. So it's less profit. It's just how the market works.

The Wii, DS and I guess PSP motivate the creation of cheaper games, which can still be about as fun. The gnome in the backyard has shown where the money is.