Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

Not exactly sure how to word this, but there seems to have popped up a new crop of gaming articles/gamers, who see nothing but gloom and doom for the Wii. While this isn't exactly new business for the Wii...let alone Nintendo, the stance a lot of them is taking... if off-putting to say the least.

A lot of people are painting the picture of the Wii leading to the death of gaming. Even though without it, the industry has actually been on a downward slope.

This goes behind the Wii is a fad (wishful thinking) to people actually expressing that they hope it implodes on itself with the current price drops for the 360 and the PS3.

Now, I'm sure most of you picked up I'm a huge fan of the console. It has offered some of the best games this generation IMO. On the other hand, I obviously can not turn an eye to the fact that it also features it fair share of games that I wouldn't use to clean-up after a dog.

The thing I don't get though is why is there so much anger towards the Wii? Is it because people fear it is pushing games in a direction they don't like (whether it be more "casual" or motion controls) or is there just something about Nintendo?

And as always, the reason I bring this up is two-fold.

-There was a podcast last week... I believe called Invisible War, which was discussing the PS3 price-drop an how it most certainly meant doom for the Wii. They spoke about how it has nothing to offer over the other two, and 3rd parties would flock. As far as I can decipher, the Wii has hardly ever offered anything more than motion over the other two but it hasn't stopped it from outselling both combined for almost 3 years. And honestly, 3rd party support could hardly get worse.

And the second is this article from IGN,
http://au.games.ign.com/articles/101/1019337p1.html

You can read for yourself.

And I guess one more question though a separate idea, but curious what the hell is the deal with all this casual/hardcore labeling nonsense?

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

I have no idea. When people complain that there's no games for their Wii, I say, what the fuck? Madworld JUST came out, along with Wii Sports Resort and Tiger Woods 2010. There's also a ton of others. Punchout, Excite Bots, EA Active, and Grand Slam Tennis. Those are all very different genres, too.

I mean, sure, it's not Zelda, but how often would they expect a good Zelda game? Why don't they pick up Rune Factory which I hear is an awesome mix of Zelda and Harvest Moon?

I say that apathy towards Wii is a lot more powerful than a few nerd critics getting angry at it for being "casual."

I think the problem is that 2008 was the best autumn of gaming ever, and Wii fell flat and had no representation other than goddamn Animal Crossing, which was a rehash of the DS game. Wii Sports Resort and Motion Plus are enough to revive it, but maybe it's too late.

Madworld was the true test that EVERY publisher was watching. They said if it didn't sell, then people would give up hope. And Madworld failed those expectations, but it's still an amazing game. Just goes to show you that, in the end, sales mean nothing.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

That's another thing I never get... when people say the Wii has no games. In any one month, it may not get too many classics, but I mean the library has a broad range of games for most all tastes. I could think of dozens of Wii games I would recommend people, but most just brush them off.

And then there is WiiWare, which I mostly blame Nintendo for, but it has a ton of great games, but between a lack of demos and no outside advertisement, the stuff goes unnoticed.

I mean it has online Tetris, Bomberman, a new Mr. Driller, a new Monkey Island game (that isn't a remake), Strong Bad, Lost Winds, Nyx, Lit and Swords and Solider (a 2D RTS, you don't see many of those around these parts), but most people would never have heard of any of them.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

Wii Ware is fantastic but then there's also the virtual console! There's a million classics that I'd never played, especially Star Fox 64, Super Metroid, F-Zero 64, and all the Soldier Blades.

If there's nothing in Wii's catalog then there's certainly something in both WiiWare or VC. If it's still not there, then you probably should just give up or buy a 360/PS3.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

(I apologize if does not make sense, I have been drinking)

I am not going to say that the wii has no good games its that they come far and few between. Coming from a non Wii owner it just doesn't have enough games to merit me buying it.

Most of the games on the Wii tend to appeal to the casual gamer. And when I say casual gamer I mean the type who either plays to unlock more modes for friends or just when friends are there. Some of the early casual gamer games (at least in my mind) were DDR and Guitar Hero. Guitar Hero more so because people tend to be more into standard rock instead of J-Pop.

I will think of more when I am soberish

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

The Wii has pushed itself into a zone of family friendly gaming, pick up and play gaming, awful titles, and horrible third party support. There may be good games, but all the failures have just made me ignore anything that they do. Combine that with the fact that im completely satisfied with my 360, and there you go.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

Wait.. failures? In what regard?

And isn't it just a vicious circle... you think the Wii is nothing more than family friendly gaming (which I never get why it is a negative) so you only see those games... and you of course don't like em... so you have no interest in the Wii because you think it only has family friendly titles... and the cycle continues.... over and over again.

And not quite sure what the last part has to do with anything really, I mean I guess it means only need one console, but eh.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

Wii represents the side of the gaming industry I don't particularly respect.. Short, gimmicky, cheap games and hardware that's built 100% with profiting in mind. Granted I don't mind my cheap and shallow games from time to time, i really don't like that its the #1 selling console. I'd really hate it if MS and Sony followed Nintendo's lead now..

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

I think many people are pissed with Nintendo. They are the industry leader with what? A tiny white box which resuses 6 year old technology. And adds motion control.

Up to the last generation, hardcore gamers always decided what console would win the war. But now for the first time it's decided by casual gamers. Somewhere on a subconscious level, the hardcores must hate that.

They're not interested in the Wii. They're furious with it. As gamers they think they want good graphics, they think they hate motion controls. So they ignore it. They keep anticipating the Wii's downfall as their ultimate revenge.

Sucks for them that they're missing out on a very fun console.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

Its all personal preference. These are failures to attract me to the system. They have failed to interest me in their product, so I see see it as an inferior machine in comparison to other consoles.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

This makes sense, but not how I read your first post. :p

Well, hardware thats built with 100% of profit.. has always been Nintendo's thing... its just this time graphical capabilities outpaced their own budget I guess. Though can't really see how you can fault them for wanting to make money, unlike MS and Sony, they only have gaming they can't afford to bleed money and make it up elsewhere.

And this is another case where I think perspective beats reality. Though on one note... for a guy who likes sports game... I find it odd you dislike short and cheap games. I mean sure they have replayability, but they aren't exactly epic quests, and for the most part they reuse the same engine for a entire generation with some alterations every year.... but other subject for another day.

As I was saying, people have this image of the Wii as some haven for party games or whatever you want, and that Nintendo is leading the charge.

I may be completely off with this list, but as far as I know Nintendo has only released a handful of games I would deem casual or gimmicky or whatever have you.

Wii Sports
Wii Play
Wario Ware Smooth Moves
Endless Ocean
Wii Fit
Wii Music
Wii Sports Resorts

And I think that's all of the ones I can think of, AC could potentially fall into that gap, but I don't really think so since its more like the Sims then anything else.

Of those games, you don't buy Wii Sports so I wouldn't count it. Wii Play I would say is both cheap and gimmicky, but it was never really intended to be anything beyond a tech demo for the controller.

Wario Ware was a series started elsewhere.

I only included Endless Ocean because I just don't think many people would see it as a game-game, its more of an experience.

Wii Fit is a gimmick, but it isn't cheap.
Neveer played Wii Music.

And I honestly think WSR is an awesome package and along with WMP is a demo for things to come hopefully.

Now compare that to Nintendo's other titles, its more... or less casual titles I guess.
Twilight Princess
Corruption
Galaxy
Batallion Wars 2
Super Paper Mario
ExciteTruck
Excitebots
Punch-Out
Fire Emblem
Mario Kart
Smash Bros
Mario Strikers Charged
The line-up of New Play Control (though won't list them separately since ports)

And then you factor in 3rd party efforts, the Wii has a fairly decent library for the "hardcore" gamer, but what tends to happen is most Wii games go under the radar.

The short and simple of it is graphics sell ideas of games when e3 rolls around and MS shows off a new Halo or Assassin Creed and Sony rolls out a new MGS or FF.. and then you compare it to something like I don't know... New Super Mario Bros, which do you think more people will talk about, and continue talking about? So that's why new franchises like Dead Space or Mass Effect or Assassin's Creed, gets so much press but something like Metroid Prime Corruption got only passing references on most sites.

Oh forgot to ask, why do you dislike that the Wii is number one console exactly?

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

I think I've been too hard on my Wii in the past. I literally didn't turn it on for like, a year...but in the past month it is all I have played - I haven't touched my Xbox except for Netflix.

The virtual console is amazing...there are -so- many fantastic titles from the SNES era that I never played, and it's great to get to explore those without using a computer emulator. I can set on my couch and use the Classic controller.

I also just got Wii Sports Resort, which has been a ton of fun. Even though most people seem to think it's only fun at parties, I think some games are more fun by yourself, like golf.

I've also been playing Majora's Mask on the virtual console, and Mario Galaxy is looking to be a fantastic game (I'm finally starting it).

The wii does suffer from third party support, though. But that has been the case with Nintendo since the Gamecube, really.

There are some aspects of the Wii that only appeal to casual gamers. But there are some aspects that do not. It's this great variety that has made it so successful. Also, it has a ton of things that help make it a friendly console towards kids, with parental controls and "kid" games. Several of the guys I know at work bought one because they have kids, but they actually play it very often.

When I read the concerns that BaB posted in this topic, it brings me back to something said at E3 a few years ago. I think it was a microsoft representative who said "People are going to have two systems in their home - an Xbox 360 and a Nintendo Wii."

This has proven to be true for me and everyone else who doesn't want a glorified blu ray player. I think it will continue to be true in the future. I can already say I will buy the next Nintendo console and the next Microsoft console. You have the 360 for multimedia purposes (movies, online interaction, netflix, demos, etc) as well as for those third party "gamer games".

And you'll have the Wii for a different breed of games. There will be the shallow but fun "party" games like Wii sports, but there are also games for the hardcore gamer, like Mario and Zelda, that are still really different than the hardcore gamer games for the other consoles.

The PS3 price drop isn't "doom" for the Wii. The people who bought a Wii and are still enjoying it probably don't even want a PS3, unless they want a blu ray player.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

I'll quote the last thing you said first since it the most relevant question.

Because they're slowing the progress of the industry by being sucsessful at being cheap. I feel that there sucsess is going to cause future generations to move away from higher budget high quality games and focus more on what will sell the most with the smallest amount of risk. Which is kinda what was brought up in the RPG thread.. No companies are willing to take the time out to make a epic good RPG because its a big risk that won't reward as well as making a simple overpriced game or remake for Wii..

And seeing systems like Wii sucseed by purposely moving away from pumping out cutting edge technology is not going to help..

I don't fault them for wanting to make money, that's just the nature of any company. I don't like that they're making money by slowing overall progress of the industry.

I never said I dislike short games, and sports games simulate an actual sport. Its not like they can alter the games much more then the game alters itself in reality. The features off the field/court are a lot more complex then you give it credit for too.

Does this mean I want every game to have yearly releases like Madden? HECK no.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

I'm not sure where this comes from. Mass Effect? Dragon Age: Origins is coming out in a few months. Tales of Vesperia. Final Fantasy (roman numerals). Elder Scrolls.

These games will continue to be made because there is a huge market for them, any company would be a fool to ignore it. You can't just flood a market with the same type of game and hope to be successful - people learned this the first time around with MMO's.

Re: Wii: A Threat to Gaming?
 

Actually, if anything, these types of games are rise, as new technology is allowing developers to create game worlds which are more and more affected by decisions that players make in the game. Look at Fable II (upcoming Fable III), and Dragon Age Origins.

Fable II is one of the best selling games on the 360. I don't think that company is going to up and decide they should make games like the ones on the Wii.