Fahrenheit 9/11

[Bond]

Well, doesn't anyone want to talk about this movie by a fat rich white man?

[Jonbo298]

You've opened the gates of hell

*waits for Strangler to come in*

[DimHalo]

haha, I can already feel the tension in this thread. I've seen the commercials for it. Very controversial (that is the point right)

[manasecret]

I haven't seen it, but in Friday's USA Today, they already had a bunch of facts contradicting some of what Mr. Moore says and showing it's peccant ways.


..And I did a quick search, here's the article.

'9/11' OMITS A FEW FINER POINTS

Fahrenheit 9/11 is not intended to be objective; director Michael Moore concedes that point. But he also has said he is "presenting the truth." A look at some of the movie's controversial points:

President Bush's reaction to news of the Sept. 11 attacks

Moore uses video of the president as Bush learned that a second jet had hit the World Trade Center the morning of Sept. 11, 2001. The president was in a classroom in Sarasota, Fla., listening to second-graders read.

Bush sat in the classroom for seven minutes after learning of the news from his chief of staff, Andrew Card. Moore superimposes a timer on the screen to document the passage of time, then asks what was going through the president's mind. Was he, Moore wonders, regretting spending 42% of his first eight months in office on "vacation?"

Moore bases his quip on an Aug. 6, 2001, story in the Washington Post that said by the end of that month Bush would have spent 42% of his first seven months in office "at vacation spots or en route." The calculation included weekends spent at the presidential retreat in Camp David, Md., and a month-long "working vacation" at the president's ranch in Crawford, Texas. Moore doesn't say that the "vacation" days included weekends or that Bush worked part of most of those days. He met, for example, with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

The other message Moore sends is that Bush was frozen, unable to do anything until he was told what to do by his aides. The independent 9/11 commission reported that Bush told its members he felt it was important to remain calm when not much was known about the attacks. Andrew Card told ABC's Good Morning America this week that Bush showed "a moment of shock, and he did stare off maybe for just a second."

The decision to let some Saudis leave the USA shortly after 9/11 and alleged connections among the Bush family, Saudi royalty and Osama bin Laden's family

Moore questions why the Bush administration allowed 142 Saudis, including members of bin Laden's family, to fly out of the USA Sept. 14 through Sept. 24, 2001. He suggests that business ties between oil-rich Saudi Arabia and the Bush family might have resulted in special treatment for some Saudi citizens — even though 15 of the 19 terrorists who hijacked planes on 9/11 were Saudis.

The implication: Saudis who might have had information about the attacks — or even been involved — slipped through the president's fingers.

But the movie does not point out that the FBI interviewed about 30 of the Saudis before they left the USA and that investigators say no one on board the planes has turned out to be of interest. The independent 9/11 commission has reported that "each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure."

An alleged connection between Bush and the Taliban that ruled Afghanistan

In December 1997, a delegation of top Taliban officials visited the USA at the invitation of officials from Unocal, a California-based oil and gas company with extensive business dealings in Texas. At the time, Unocal was pursuing a deal to construct a gas pipeline through Afghanistan. Moore notes that the delegation visited Texas while Bush was governor. He doesn't say the delegation met with Bush, but that is implied.

In fact, Bush did not meet with the Taliban representatives. What Moore also doesn't say is that Clinton administration officials at the State Department did sit down with the Taliban officials and that their visit was made with the Clinton administration's permission.

By Mark Memmott, USA TODAY

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/...it-cover_x.htm (it's not the main article, by the way)

I do want to see Fahrenheit 9/11. But mostly for entertainment.

[Dylflon]

I saw it yesterday. Michael Moore doesn't do as much talking. He lets the events speak for themselves.

You Michael Moore haters, see the movie before you bash it.

[Null]

hehehe. it was actually quite an amusing movie/documentary.

They're all real video in it. but he just pieces them together in a way to make a big story line. some is true. some is made to sound different then it is. some is exagerations.

but i only went cuz some friends decided to go while we were out. It was good for entertainment

[Crono]

I really want to go see this movie, hopefully I can make it some time this week.

[Stonecutter]

I will admit, after having read everything that I could find that was Anti-Bowling for Columbine, that Moore did do some unfair things to help make his point.

I saw F 9/11 on Friday and have looked into every single story that attempts to debunk Moore's side of the facts and I have found NOTHING wrong. The vast majority of the attacks take the form of the things that Manasecret posted. Stuff like this:

But the movie does not point out that the FBI interviewed about 30 of the Saudis before they left the USA and that investigators say no one on board the planes has turned out to be of interest. The independent 9/11 commission has reported that "each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure."

I mean, that's ridiculous. So the FBI interviewed less than 25% of the Saudis that left and then we're supposed to feel better because it turns out after the fact that they really weren't a threat. Well golly gee, I'm so glad we got that information after they left the country.

In December 1997, a delegation of top Taliban officials visited the USA at the invitation of officials from Unocal, a California-based oil and gas company with extensive business dealings in Texas. At the time, Unocal was pursuing a deal to construct a gas pipeline through Afghanistan. Moore notes that the delegation visited Texas while Bush was governor. He doesn't say the delegation met with Bush, but that is implied.

In fact, Bush did not meet with the Taliban representatives. What Moore also doesn't say is that Clinton administration officials at the State Department did sit down with the Taliban officials and that their visit was made with the Clinton administration's permission.

Paragraph 1: Saying that it was implied is implying that it was implied. How this can be construed as anything but right-wing nitpicking is beyond me. I didn't feel it was implied. Texas is an oil rich state, I'm sure some bull**** went down while they were there, if not with bushes bosom buddies than with another scummy oil corporation.

Paragraph 2: Anyone who has followed Michael Moore's career knows he's no fan of the Democratic Party, but the feeling of the vast majority of the liberals in this country is that right now anything is better than the Republican Party. For a conservative to point this out is basically conceding that very fact.

If you want to say that this movie is more a piece of propaganda than a documentary I won't argue with (to a point, all of the parts where Moore actually went and did his own interviews cannot be considered anything but documentary) but I have yet to see ANYTHING that exposes a major flaw (or even a minor flaw) in the FACTS of this movie. That wasn't the case with BfC, and Moore has learned his lesson. He hired an entire team of fact checkers and a team of lawyers to go after anyone who attempts to discredit the movie though false accusations.

If you follow the news carefully, as I do, you won't learn very much from F 9/11, but I, though a modest person, can guarantee that the vast majority of the American public does not follow the news as closely as I do and they are going to learn a lot from this movie.

4 Stars, go see it, $10 bet on the table that it gets a Best Picture nomination.

[Dylflon]

Can't get best picture. But I wonder if they'll give him best documentary again.

*Strokes chin*

If Bush is still in office he probably won't even be nominated.

[Stonecutter]

Sure it can get best picture.

It won't, but I bet it gets a nomination.

[Typhoid]

I was supposed to be watching it right this very second with Zaglar Ninja,....stupid Hockey ruins my plans...curse you.

I saw some "highlights" of it on channels, and it is apparent he does less talking and lets the events speak for themselves.


And i remember somebody ( i honestly forget who) was bashing Moore for trying to level with the "common man" and people keep making references to the fact he is rich. So what, he was common before he decided to sell everything he owned to make his first contraversial movie, money doesnt make a person change, trust me.

[Seth]

I have to travel to Vancouver if I want to watch the film(which I do).

That's about a 4 hours drive. I'd probably see it at the collossus in Langley.

I'm annoyed that none of the Landmark Cinema or Famous Players theatres are playing the film here. I don't get it?


Maybe because I'm in a conservative riding?

j/k

Anyway, thanks for the post stonecutter.(+ rep for the digging) I've already heard a bunch of people trying to discredit it. I happened to be watching global news (typhoid, dyne dylflon etc will know) and they completely discredited the movie. It was kind of weird. Anyway...I don't know if I'll travel the 4 miles to Vancouver from Kelowna. Normally I would in the summer but I have a full time job and such. I'll try for a kazaa or suprnova.

[The Germanator]

I saw it last night. Great movie. It really has convinced to vote for Kerry instead of Nader...We need to give someone else a shot at this presidency thing...

Anyway, I liked how Moore mostly kept himself out of the film and let the footage speak for itself. This was way more effective than some of his personal probing in Bowling For Columbine. Good movie, defintely reccomended.

[Joeiss]

I'm probably going to see it tonight or tomorrow. Looks good.

[Crash]

I hate michael moore and his loud ass mouth. i liked roger and me, but didn't like bowling for columbine too much. i know i'm going to hate this one. i'll see his movie tonight, but hate the fact he'll make money off it.

i made a picture in honor of him.