Who Killed Rare?

[BreakABone]

Thought this was an interesting read on the State of Rare and its history.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ho-killed-rare

[Neo]

Kristin Shepard

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Neo

Kristin Shepard

I usually go with the one-armed man!

[KillerGremlin]

It wouldn't be Gametavern if I didn't find an anti-Nintendo spin but....

Proof that Nintendo's philosophy doesn't translate to the rest of the gaming industry? I feel like Rare was a longtime joint Nintendo venture, and sort of died when they were forced to meet the industry demands of big games. Same goes with Sega. This isn't a knock on Nintendo, in fact this is a big sideways compliment. Nintendo has many philosophies that seem to align with the indie game companies and small developers of yesteryear.

Or maybe it is as simple as small indie companies change when they get new staff.

There was a lot of talk about Microsoft screwing Bungie over. That hit much closer to home. Halo 2 when originally announced had all sorts of cool shit that never made it into the final game. There was talks of destructible environments, more use of dark spaces and flashlights, different vehicles for different terrain...I mean tons of cool stuff that looked like it was in the beta stage. And then the game was delayed for a year, a bunch of shit disappeared, the single player was kind of "meh" and the big thing was online gaming which was fun but kind of dumbed down as well.

So who knows what extent Microsoft gets involved with their projects.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

It wouldn't be Gametavern if I didn't find an anti-Nintendo spin but....

Proof that Nintendo's philosophy doesn't translate to the rest of the gaming industry? I feel like Rare was a longtime joint Nintendo venture, and sort of died when they were forced to meet the industry demands of big games. Same goes with Sega. This isn't a knock on Nintendo, in fact this is a big sideways compliment. Nintendo has many philosophies that seem to align with the indie game companies and small developers of yesteryear.

Or maybe it is as simple as small indie companies change when they get new staff.

There was a lot of talk about Microsoft screwing Bungie over. That hit much closer to home. Halo 2 when originally announced had all sorts of cool shit that never made it into the final game. There was talks of destructible environments, more use of dark spaces and flashlights, different vehicles for different terrain...I mean tons of cool stuff that looked like it was in the beta stage. And then the game was delayed for a year, a bunch of shit disappeared, the single player was kind of "meh" and the big thing was online gaming which was fun but kind of dumbed down as well.

So who knows what extent Microsoft gets involved with their projects.

Nintendo's philosophy, really only has to work for them and their 2nd party.
And, not to be surprised, it makes sense. One of the few companies that are still around after 25 years.. and who continue to be relevant in the grand scheme of things.

That said, it just seems like Rare was mismanaged and let some success go to their head instead of just focusing on being a good developer, they KNEW they were a good developer.

[KillerGremlin]

I consider Nintendo relevant, yeah. I wish they focused on innovating in their games and less so with hardware or gimmicky tech shit. I still adore many Nintendo titles, or titles developed for Nintendo. Pikmin is one of my favorite games ever, and reminds me of games like Plants vs. Zombies or World of Goo. Games with a ton of quirk, big heart, and gameplay that is even bigger than the quirk and big heart. When a game captivates me like that, it reminds me that gaming is really art. There's been a handful of Nintendo games that have had that effect on me.

Nintendo held licensing rights over Rare, right? So that must have made it hard for Rare to develop new games. I think that is another factor brushed off. I remember when Rare was sold to Microsoft, the big talk was the fact that Nintendo retained the licensing rights to all of Rare's interesting franchises.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I consider Nintendo relevant, yeah. I wish they focused on innovating in their games and less so with hardware or gimmicky tech shit. I still adore many Nintendo titles, or titles developed for Nintendo. Pikmin is one of my favorite games ever, and reminds me of games like Plants vs. Zombies or World of Goo. Games with a ton of quirk, big heart, and gameplay that is even bigger than the quirk and big heart. When a game captivates me like that, it reminds me that gaming is really art. There's been a handful of Nintendo games that have had that effect on me.

Nintendo held licensing rights over Rare, right? So that must have made it hard for Rare to develop new games. I think that is another factor brushed off. I remember when Rare was sold to Microsoft, the big talk was the fact that Nintendo retained the licensing rights to all of Rare's interesting franchises.

I think it goes hand in hand at times
We would never have gotten stuff like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, if they didn't come out with the N64 controller which was a hardware gimmick.

Similar to how Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin were products of the GameCube and all of its quirks.

And we have our disagreements on the Wii, but I do think motion controls and even the lack of power made for some interesting choices this generation.

I still think Nintendo is a remarkably talented group, and they make a ton of fantastic games. The problem is a lot of them get lost in the shuffle between the latest Mario or Zelda or Pokemon game.

As for IPs, I'm fairly certain Rare owns most of them. I mean since they've been with Microsoft we've gotten a new Perfect Dark and Banjo game and a remake of Conker.

Only ones they didn't do are Jet Force and Killer Instincts, I believe.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I think it goes hand in hand at times
We would never have gotten stuff like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, if they didn't come out with the N64 controller which was a hardware gimmick.

Similar to how Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin were products of the GameCube and all of its quirks.

And we have our disagreements on the Wii, but I do think motion controls and even the lack of power made for some interesting choices this generation.

I still think Nintendo is a remarkably talented group, and they make a ton of fantastic games. The problem is a lot of them get lost in the shuffle between the latest Mario or Zelda or Pokemon game.

As for IPs, I'm fairly certain Rare owns most of them. I mean since they've been with Microsoft we've gotten a new Perfect Dark and Banjo game and a remake of Conker.

Only ones they didn't do are Jet Force and Killer Instincts, I believe.

Ha...was the joystick the gimick, or was it that stupid 3rd handle with the most useless joypad evvarrr? Nintendo did revolutionize gaming with their joystick.

Also, I thought Nintendo had the rights to Conker and Banjo for a bit (or still might). Goldeneye had to be remade, and I'm still not sure where those licensing rights lie (and who cares at this point). Starfox and Donkey Kong are forever Nintendo property, Diddy Kong Racing got tied up because of Banjo And Conker I believe. Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts is not Banjo-Kazooie or Banjo-Tooie.

I never had issues with the Gamecube hardware. It's a solid as fuck console with THE BEST controller for console games that are not FPS. The lack of DVD was considered an issue for some, but at that time I felt like having a dedicated DVD player was still the way to go. The lack of online support wasn't a big deal at the time because XBox Live was in its infancy. And the Gamecube has the best graphics after Xbox, I believe.

My beef with Nintendo during the Gamecube period was their lack of 3rd party support. And we did see 3rd party developers drop like flies. That was a good generation to own a PS2 and Xbox along with your Cube. In retrospect, some awesome 1st party titles came out on the Cube, including the retrospectively low-balled Mario Sunshine. The Gamecube was also padded by the fantastic Gameboy Advance, which is probably my favorite Nintendo handheld bar none. The SNES revival we saw with the GBA was fantastic.

Every 3rd party failing on the Cube was sort of remedied by the huge ass GBA game library. It was an okay time to be a Nintendo fan if you could dig their GBA.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

Ha...was the joystick the gimick, or was it that stupid 3rd handle with the most useless joypad evvarrr? Nintendo did revolutionize gaming with their joystick.

Also, I thought Nintendo had the rights to Conker and Banjo for a bit (or still might). Goldeneye had to be remade, and I'm still not sure where those licensing rights lie (and who cares at this point). Starfox and Donkey Kong are forever Nintendo property, Diddy Kong Racing got tied up because of Banjo And Conker I believe. Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts is not Banjo-Kazooie or Banjo-Tooie.

I never had issues with the Gamecube hardware. It's a solid as fuck console with THE BEST controller for console games that are not FPS. The lack of DVD was considered an issue for some, but at that time I felt like having a dedicated DVD player was still the way to go. The lack of online support wasn't a big deal at the time because XBox Live was in its infancy. And the Gamecube has the best graphics after Xbox, I believe.

My beef with Nintendo during the Gamecube period was their lack of 3rd party support. And we did see 3rd party developers drop like flies. That was a good generation to own a PS2 and Xbox along with your Cube. In retrospect, some awesome 1st party titles came out on the Cube, including the retrospectively low-balled Mario Sunshine. The Gamecube was also padded by the fantastic Gameboy Advance, which is probably my favorite Nintendo handheld bar none. The SNES revival we saw with the GBA was fantastic.

Every 3rd party failing on the Cube was sort of remedied by the huge ass GBA game library. It was an okay time to be a Nintendo fan if you could dig their GBA.

Well. Goldeneye is a case all in its own.
Because clearly the Bond license belongs to EON as a whole. And they shop that around (its been with EA and Activision over the past decade)
Goldeneye N64 as far as I know is currently a toss between Activision (Bond license), Nintendo (own some aspect) and Rare/MS

As for Conker/Banjo, fairly certain Nintendo has no rights to them, even though were created in a Nintendo spin-off game, which starred a character that Rare created.. er yeah..

Video game licensing can be weird at times.

[The Germanator]

Very good article. I haven't really kept up with the current generation, but I knew I haven't heard anything from Rare in a long time. They were such an important part of my gaming history. Their run of games for N64 (probably my gaming heyday) was pretty amazing. I looked forward to every single one they made and more often than not they succeeded.

Their output for NES is amazing too...and since that's the era I seem to be stuck in, it's pretty sweet that they made RC Pro-Am, Battletoads, Cobra Triangle, Snake Rattle n' Roll.

I know I'm living in the past, but their legacy is pretty great in my brain.

[gekko]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

There was a lot of talk about Microsoft screwing Bungie over. That hit much closer to home. Halo 2 when originally announced had all sorts of cool shit that never made it into the final game. There was talks of destructible environments, more use of dark spaces and flashlights, different vehicles for different terrain...I mean tons of cool stuff that looked like it was in the beta stage. And then the game was delayed for a year, a bunch of shit disappeared, the single player was kind of "meh" and the big thing was online gaming which was fun but kind of dumbed down as well.

So who knows what extent Microsoft gets involved with their projects.

Bungie put out an anniversary video recently which tells the whole story. Things like Bungie was out of money and approached Microsoft looking to be purchased, and all what happened during Halo 2 which caused them to be cut. If anything, Bungie was lucky they were able to be sheltered from the corporate Microsoft culture. Rare being so far away, I assume is the same way.

But either way, cutting things is part of game development, you just usually don't hear about it because it's bad marketing. Just be happy the game actually shipped.

[Professor S]

Short answer... Darwin. Evolve or die.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by gekko

Bungie put out an anniversary video recently which tells the whole story. Things like Bungie was out of money and approached Microsoft looking to be purchased, and all what happened during Halo 2 which caused them to be cut. If anything, Bungie was lucky they were able to be sheltered from the corporate Microsoft culture. Rare being so far away, I assume is the same way.

But either way, cutting things is part of game development, you just usually don't hear about it because it's bad marketing. Just be happy the game actually shipped.

Thanks, I never knew this. This is very interesting.

I enjoyed Halo 2 very much, but I was pretty jaded for a while when it came out. I dislike dual wielding...but I love murder ball or whatever that mod is where you hold onto the skull for a minute to win.

Playing murder ball on Lockout...oh man. So frantic and awesome. That's easily one of the best gameplay mods ever.