Nintendo: Arrogance or something else?

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by Reggie

I think we would have been embarrassed to do what our competitors are currently doing [motion controls]... So, all I can tell you is that we will innovate. We will provide something new. Something that the consumer and the industry will look at and say, 'Wow, I didn't see that coming.'

Originally Posted by Laurent Fischer (Nintendo EU)

Only geeks and otaku [want more storage].

Originally Posted by Iwata

As far as the Wii is concerned, we have not found a significant reason to make it HD-compatible at this time.

Originally Posted by Reggie at GDC

As for when digital will overtake packaged goods, our view is that is well into the future.

Originally Posted by Game Informer Interview

GI: As far as Virtual Console pricing how it breaks down in Europe, Japan, and here, it seems most expensive in the U.S. when you check exchange rates…

Kaplan: Do you drink lattes?

GI: Yeah.

Kaplan: How much do you spend on lattes?

GI: I spend a lot.

Kaplan: There you go. This is something that lasts forever.

Originally Posted by Iwata in Japan Spotlight

Customers do not want online games.

These quips used to be funny, but they just underscore the arrogance that seems to have become core to Nintendo as a company of late. And I'm sure there are quite a few I've missed (feel free to add them).

Nintendo snubs every company to release a product that does something theirs doesn't (and the feature(s) is/are dismissed as superfluous). They categorize their markets as hardcore and mainstream - which as far as I can tell is code for informed and uninformed - and then market to the mainstream because there's more revenue. Granted, if can sell your product that's great. Just not to the extent of alienating the same people who got you where you are. If you look at their press releases during the N64 and Cube generations, Nintendo was a bit more reserved. They (retrospectively) talked about the failures of the company and how the Cube (and then eventually the Wii) would be better. But they've taken the wrong idea and focused solely on sales instead of making a quality product. They’ve focused on a unique function (motion control) to the exclusion of every other good idea that the other major manufacturers implemented in their products. When called on it, they offer an anecdote, make a sweeping generalization of what people don't want, or dissemble to the point that you don't know what they said.

Let’s look at a few evolutionary advancements in gaming over the last 10 years that Nintendo has ignored.

Online Gaming:
Thanks to Xbox Live (for the most part), online gaming is huge. It's now grown to the point it can be broken down into four main parts: Avatar, Multiplayer, Achievements, and Downloadable Content. What has Nintendo done for online gaming? Wii Friend Codes, meaning you're a number instead of a name. You can have a Mii (avatar), but you can't find your friends Mii, you have to enter their friends code after contacting them in a more traditional method. Achievements? Nada. Downloadable Content? Without mass storage that's pretty tough.

The move to HD:
Yes, yes, it might be coming. The Wii HD. Too bad Nintendo was so slow to add this. You know, considering how dated the tech is in the Wii (and subsequently how cheap it is), they could have at least sprung for a little more video memory for HD output. Honestly, emulating the Wii is getting to the point that it will be the better option for HD gaming before long.

Mass storage:
The ability to use SD cards is laughable, and came after years of protest. During which time Nintendo simply wrote off mass storage as something nobody would want except 'geeks and otaku' (http://bit.ly/a75k0p). Nintendo considers themselves so accepted by the mainstream that they can insult the very people (Geeks and Otaku) that have been padding their wallet for the last 20 years? I don't think so. Mass storage is perfectly possible on the Wii as demonstrated by the excellent homebrew scene.

Nintendo's history demonstrates that they want nothing to do with an idea if it's been done by a competitor in the last five years - so they lag behind in every aspect but the one they focused on for their current product. This time around, motion controllers. Next up, 3D on the DS – how much do you want to bet they’ll forget something critical while they tout the 3D screens and charge out of the nose for it while using second rate tech to power it. If Nintendo doesn't start reacting to their market as well as try to anticipate it, their future history will be unfortunately cyclical.

[Typhoid]

Well put thread.

Also, I completely forgot that Nintendo released the Virtual Boy in 95.
The horrible, horrible failure of a machine.

And I also just realized that the GC controllers are basically Virtual Boy controllers minus the thumb sticks.

[uber_paddler]

Meh, it's just posturing, everyone does it. Have you seen the latest Sony Move ad? When it comes down to it the shareholders love this kind of shit.

Plus, most of that is kinda correct. Yeah, they don't have a reason to release an HD system, they're selling the current ones like hotcakes. Probably better than hotcakes, actually. Also, no, most people don't need extra storage. Geeks and otaku probably make up a larger percentage of those that do need more. Most of the consumers who buy a Wii probably don't give a damn about online games, either.

Not saying I necessarily think it's ok, and I'm not saying I don't think Nintendo should be more open to the technology of others. But ultimately they have the right to be arrogant, 'cause they're crushing the competition. From a non-gamers perspective it makes sense. As a gamer their reluctance to innovate beyond their one key concept every generation annoys me, yes.

[Xantar]

What's that? Oh, a rehash of the same conversation we've been having for the past four years? Wake me up if somebody says anything new.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Xantar

What's that? Oh, a rehash of the same conversation we've been having for the past four years? Wake me up if somebody says anything new.

Sleep Beiber, sleep.

they're selling the current ones like hotcakes. Probably better than hotcakes, actually. Also, no, most people don't need extra storage. Geeks and otaku probably make up a larger percentage of those that do need more.

I'd say storage is a nice thing. With PS3 or 360 I can put my music on there, and sub it into certain games in place of the terrible music in the game. Its not a deal breaker or anything, it's just a nice bonus feature, to be able to use your console as sort of an 'everything box'.

Also:

Most of the consumers don't give a damn about online games, either.

I highly disagree with this, solely based on the immense success of online gaming. Nothing more really needs to be said. If you want to see a modern day revolt, take away the online capability from everyone.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by Xantar

What's that? Oh, a rehash of the same conversation we've been having for the past four years? Wake me up if somebody says anything new.

Maybe we've been having two different conversations, then.

The base arguements might remain the same but there are important differences. Specifically I'm taking quotes from this past generation to drive the point home. I'm also on the other side of the debate this time (though I've been on the fence for a while). I posed it as a question, and then presented my own answer. Feel free to do the same.

[uber_paddler]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I highly disagree with this, solely based on the immense success of online gaming. Nothing more really needs to be said. If you want to see a modern day revolt, take away the online capability from everyone.

I should, perhaps, have been more specific there. I was speaking purely of the Wii audience when I said that. Online gaming is, in general, awesome. I enjoy the hell out of it. I don't think most of the people who buy a Wii care about it at all, though.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by uber_paddler

I should, perhaps, have been more specific there. I was speaking purely of the Wii audience when I said that. Online gaming is, in general, awesome. I enjoy the hell out of it. I don't think most of the people who buy a Wii care about it at all, though.

Oh, okay.
Touche.
Thanks for clearing that up, because if you're solely talking about Wii people, then I completely agree.

[KillerGremlin]

...and Xantar takes a whiff of his own fart while adjusting his monocle.

Bravo.

[Xantar]

Originally Posted by thatmariolover

Maybe we've been having two different conversations, then.

The base arguements might remain the same but there are important differences. Specifically I'm taking quotes from this past generation to drive the point home. I'm also on the other side of the debate this time (though I've been on the fence for a while). I posed it as a question, and then presented my own answer. Feel free to do the same.

Maybe this thread is different in some hair splittingly minor way from all the other kvetching about Nintendo, but I don't really see it. And I don't care if you're on the "other" side. I've never assumed you're on any "side" at all. Nor should you assume I'm on any particular "side" either.

Look, you know I like and respect you. But I'm telling you honestly that I don't see any difference between this thread and about a dozen other threads all over GT and the Internet. And it's not that I agree or disagree with anything you're saying. It's just that I don't see anything new here. Nor do I see any potential for anybody here to say anything I couldn't have predicted them saying. I've read everything so far and see no reason to continue.

So this time you have quotes? So what? Corporate PR often sounds like jackassery. Not to mention it's often outright lies. Remember that time Nintendo claimed they weren't lowering thr price of the GameCube about three days before they lowered the price of the GameCube? As Moogle pointed out, public statements are worthless.

So once I cut out all the PR lying, I'm left with the same old complaints about Nintendo not having an online system, not using HD, being unnecessarily restrictive and so on. And it's not that they're wrong. They're just the exact same thing we've been talking about for four years. Explain to me why I should bother continuing.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

...and Xantar takes a whiff of his own fart while adjusting his monocle.

Bravo.

Well, to him this argument has been beaten to death, so I can hardly blame him. To us, GT has only recently started having conversations and debates again. I think we stopped talking about stuff because we assumed we knew how everybody felt about most things. But the truth is, we're all getting older and our opinions are clearly changing as well. And Nintendo has said a lot more in recent years now that they've been put on the pedestal.

Regardless, that picture is enormously satisfying all by itself.

Originally Posted by Xantar

Maybe this thread is different in some hair splittingly minor way from all the other kvetching about Nintendo, but I don't really see it. And I don't care if you're on the "other" side. I've never assumed you're on any "side" at all. Nor should you assume I'm on any particular "side" either.

Look, you know I like and respect you. But I'm telling you honestly that I don't see any difference between this thread and about a dozen other threads all over GT and the Internet. And it's not that I agree or disagree with anything you're saying. It's just that I don't see anything new here. Nor do I see any potential for anybody here to say anything I couldn't have predicted them saying. I've read everything so far and see no reason to continue.

So this time you have quotes? So what? Corporate PR often sounds like jackassery. Not to mention it's often outright lies. Remember that time Nintendo claimed they weren't lowering thr price of the GameCube about three days before they lowered the price of the GameCube? As Moogle pointed out, public statements are worthless.

So once I cut out all the PR lying, I'm left with the same old complaints about Nintendo not having an online system, not using HD, being unnecessarily restrictive and so on. And it's not that they're wrong. They're just the exact same thing we've been talking about for four years. Explain to me why I should bother continuing.

Don't continue the conversation if you don't want to participate. Start one you do want to participate in. I'm not offended at all. But I want to be convinced I'm either wrong, or that there's a really good reason for disagreeing. If this is the way they're conducting business, what do you want to change? Is it a Japanese business ego? Is it just cultural differences? Is it money? What is it? Regardless, your opinion is neither unanticipated or ill received. I apparently just want to hear it one more time.

[Typhoid]

Xantar, nobody's asking you to participate in this thread if you see no point in the conversation at hand.
If you're not interested in the topic, then stop posting about it.
Simple problem, simple solution.

Regardless, that picture is enormously satisfying all by itself.

So very, very much agreed.

[KillerGremlin]

Despite my poking fun I kind of see where Xantar is coming from.

I think the real question is why is the Wii doing so good and is the future of gaming the "serious person's" console or more Wii-oriented gaming and is gaming's future even on the console or on gadgets that appeal to morons like the iTampon.

That's my question.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

Despite my poking fun I kind of see where Xantar is coming from.

I think the real question is why is the Wii doing so good and is the future of gaming the "serious person's" console or more Wii-oriented gaming and is gaming's future even on the console or on gadgets that appeal to morons like the iTampon.

That's my question.

Your question poses another problem I have. Nintendo definitely underestimates the Android/App Store and the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad and any other multifunction device where gaming is starting to grow. Then again, I think you do too.

The iPad may have a terrible name and a few definite shortcomings, but it also fills a gap that encroaches on the handheld market to a degree (and the iPod Touch even more so). Why would I buy a $200 DSi XL when I can spend $300 and get an iPod Touch? It does a lot more, and if I jailbreak it (no reason not to without a phone contract) I can even emulate Nintendo's back library on the go.

60% of the apps on the iPad are games. Some of them serious. And as the iPad is charging more of a premium on apps, big name developers will be less shy about bringing their games to it.

Regardless of how much you like the iPad, it sold 300,000+ units on the first day. It (and other tablets like it) is going to be around for a while.

[manasecret]

Despite their public blustering, I believe Nintendo will slowly incorporate more and more of what the competition has made popular. But I do mean slowly.

Just remember how they felt about CDs back with the N64. Then they decided to go DVD with GCN, but oh wait! It's a GD-ROM bitches! Don't even bother asking what the G stands for, it stands for GREAT. As in GREAT DICK-ROM YOUR MOM.

Then remember how they would never ever incorporate online gaming. Well, along comes the Wii and there they have it. But oh wait, you want it to be a simple and pleasurable experience?? Sorry, pedos are everywhere. You've heard about the pope right?

Then comes HD gaming. Wii does HD, but it doesn't do super HD like all the others. What, you want super HD? May I refer you to our GD-ROM?

So, yeah, they're arrogant. Sometimes it works for them (NES, SNES, Wii, GameBoys, DS), sometimes it doesn't (all the others). I think overall, though, they win big-time.

And TML, going back to your old DS topic competing with Apple products, I think you and many others I've read are way over-estimating how much of the market the i devices will snag. Without dedicated game controls, the iPods will never make much of a dent on the handheld market. Also, may I refer you to the Sega Game Gear, Sony PSP, and that always-popular N-Gage?