The RPG Thread

BreakABone · 08-24-2009, 04:32 PM

At first this was gonna be a one question thread, but felt it would cheapen half of the market.

But I guess I shall pose the first question:
Why is there a lack of quality, top-notch RPGs this generation?

I mean I don't know why, we have 3 semi-viable platforms and maybe a handful of decent to good RPGs (this of course doesn't account for the DS).

Then I wanted to expand because we have a decent number of good Western RPGs so a two-part question

-Do you prefer Western or Japanese RPGs?
And do you see Western RPGs taking over the market?

Finally, I guess as with all genres, how do you shake up a genre that has been around almost since the beginning?

Professor S · 08-24-2009, 04:38 PM

I think the nature of RPG's is changing more than the RPG disappearing. As technology advances, developers are free to create hybrid RPG games, like Mass Effect and others hat don't fit into any traditional definitions. Also, I think the MMO genre has really taken a huge chunk of emphasis away from story driven single player RPG's.

But then again we've also seen two fantastic example of hardcore RPG's comes out this gen, like Fallout 3 and Oblivion.

And for the record, I prefer Western Style.

magus113 · 08-24-2009, 05:16 PM

I think there are a lot of gamers (outside of us) that if they didn't like the traditional RPG from the old school days, they won't like it now and companies develop off of that. They don't have the drive or the time to dedicate to playing any game more than 15 hours long without a multiplayer aspect. It's run and gun for most people because it's more of an adrenaline rush. It excites them.

I prefer Japanese RPGs. They've been doing it right since the NES, and continue to do so.

Ric · 08-24-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magus113

I prefer Japanese RPGs. They've been doing it right since the NES, and continue to do so.

Damn right

Vampyr · 08-24-2009, 07:29 PM

I don't really have a preference as long as the game is enjoyable.

But your typical turn-based RPG's do seem like they're becoming a thing of the past. I think this is because turn-based games were a result of limitations placed by technology.

But there have been some really great RPG's this generation. Tales of Vesperia, Oblivion, and Mass Effect are just a few that I have played.

magus113 · 08-24-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampyr

But your typical turn-based RPG's do seem like they're becoming a thing of the past. I think this is because turn-based games were a result of limitations placed by technology.

But what about the efforts to do turn-based on next-gen consoles?

The DS doesn't (really) have such limitations and I'm sure sure that (minus the remakes of SNES classics) there are some good turn-based games on there.

Even the Xbox 360! Hironobu Sakaguchi's side studio Mistwalker pushed out Lost Odyssey and I thought it was great! Nothing but good old-fashioned old school turn-based RPG goodness with a deep, emotional story, and kickass visuals.

Even their other 360 turn-based RPG, Blue Dragon was halfway decent.

Typhoid · 08-24-2009, 08:03 PM

I don't have a preference in style. I like Japanese RPG's, as I find them super fun, but the Western ones are more aimed to the older generations, and are also really good, but in a totally different way.

But really, I think Strangler summed it up best.

TheGame · 08-24-2009, 08:55 PM

I prefer Japanese RPGs because they generally have better story-telling in them than western games. As I just said in another thread, I'm more motivated when there's a good storyline with complex characters to pull me through the game.

As for why the library of RPGs has died down.. I'm not sure. It could have to do with production costs and the time it takes to develop them. Its really hard to justify making a deep long RPG when it won't outsell a simplistic game that takes 2 months to develop on Wii. (Or in Ps3 and 360's case.. hard to justify making it when you can reuse the same engine and characters over and over and sell more.)

Vampyr · 08-24-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magus113

But what about the efforts to do turn-based on next-gen consoles?

I think that's because people are familiar with them, and they have carved out their own style, but I think the reason they initially came about was because of hardware limitations.

But how many really successful turn based rpg's do you see now days compared to very successful non-turn based ones? Even Final Fantasy has moved away from typical turn based battles. It's a niche market for sure.

BreakABone · 08-24-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGame

As for why the library of RPGs has died down.. I'm not sure. It could have to do with production costs and the time it takes to develop them. Its really hard to justify making a deep long RPG when it won't outsell a simplistic game that takes 2 months to develop on Wii. (Or in Ps3 and 360's case.. hard to justify making it when you can reuse the same engine and characters over and over and sell more.)

Actually, I can no longer see that as a reason, I mean we are 3-4 years into the generation, even if an RPG took a while to come out, I think we would be seeing a ton of them in the fall.

I do think that developers backed the wrong horse at the beginning of the generation. PSX/PS2 were for all intents and purposes, the RPG powerhouse last generation. The Ps3 has not found anywhere near the success, most importantly it hasn't found a footing in Japan yet which makes most of these types of RPGs. So I think developers got scared off.

The Ps3 didn't have the presence PSX/PS2 had in Japan so it was big risk/small reward.
The Xbox 360 can't sell traditional RPGs as Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia bombed for the most part.
And the Wii just seems to get ignored by most people, though Monster Hunter G and Tri shows Japanese are willing to buy RPGs on it. On the same hand, those were popular franchises so doesn't say much.

I guess it also helps that the DS is easy to develop for, and RPGs do really well on it. It has had some awesome RPGs like The World Ends With You, several Final Fantasies (even if remakes) and the upcoming Mario and Luigi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampyr

I think that's because people are familiar with them, and they have carved out their own style, but I think the reason they initially came about was because of hardware limitations.

But how many really successful turn based rpg's do you see now days compared to very successful non-turn based ones? Even Final Fantasy has moved away from typical turn based battles.

The problem though is... how many turn based RPGs do you see? I mean its hard to gauge success when there isn't anything on the market. Like I mentioned early, there were some that bombed on the 360, but honestly the 360 userbase isn't the type that plays Japanese RPGs.

TheGame · 08-24-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Actually, I can no longer see that as a reason, I mean we are 3-4 years into the generation, even if an RPG took a while to come out, I think we would be seeing a ton of them in the fall.

Well, what I was saying its a mix of how long it takes for then to develop, and the fact that rushed low-budget games and direct sequals are winning out this generation. And for the most part they were winning out last gen too..

I don't think companies are as willing to take a big risk on an original product, and most RPGs are 'original' stories.

DarkMaster · 08-24-2009, 10:05 PM

No one takes risks to try and create new and original titles now. Remember when shit like Xenogears just came out of nowhere? Vagrant Story? Suikoden? RPGs would just release out of the blue and you'd be like "yeah, looks cool, I'll try it out" and they were pretty much all awesome. Companies were more interested in developing new franchises than regurgitating the same shit with better graphics.

There's a lot of pressure these days to create highly cinematic video games that rival hollywood films, and as the industry becomes more mainstream, so too does it lose more of its soul.

TheGame · 08-24-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkMaster

No one takes risks to try and create new and original titles now. Remember when shit like Xenogears just came out of nowhere? Vagrant Story? Suikoden? RPGs would just release out of the blue and you'd be like "yeah, looks cool, I'll try it out" and they were pretty much all awesome. Companies were more interested in developing new franchises than regurgitating the same shit with better graphics.

There's a lot of pressure these days to create highly cinematic video games that rival hollywood films, and as the industry becomes more mainstream, so too does it lose more of its soul.

I agree with you 110%. I miss Psx...

BreakABone · 08-24-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGame

I agree with you 110%. I miss Psx...

Justin... Justin my friend... you need to keep one line of thinking

http://gametavern.net/forums/showpos...26&postcount=8

You are one of the people causing the problem. :P

You celebrate games like MGS 4... not saying it is bad or anything, but it is one of the main franchises that has been going more and more Hollywood.

There needs to be a nice balance between going Hollywood like some of the bigger franchises and going back to their arcade roots like some of the Wii games.

Hmm... gives me an idea

Professor S · 08-24-2009, 11:11 PM

I think RPG's lost the mainstream when the technology didn't favor them anymore. The heyday of the RPG was the PSX generation with epic titles such as FF7 that really leveraged the cinematics available in the format to push the story and give the titles a real wow factor. The gameplay technology itself wasn't that impressive, but wow... those cinematics and special power cut scenes were mind blowing at the time.

Now technology is at the point that you can have those kind of wow moments in game and have that same kind of storytelling power in any genre of gaming, not just a 100 hr long turn based RPG, or even choose when and where you WANT to take a turn by pausing the action. A game is as turn based as you'd like it to be. If you want to really think about it, Mass Effect is really the eastern style RPG v. 2.0... and I like it.

On a side note, we also have to include the mainstreaming of video gaming as it has progressed from a youth-based and "hardcore" pastime to something the whole family participates in as the youth have grown and had kids that they share their love of gaming with. Hence the rapid growth of casual gaming in importance.