Free Will vs. Determinism

KillerGremlin · 02-10-2009, 03:47 AM

This is a great philosophical/hypothetical question. Do you believe life is determined and that there is a set path, or do you believe there is free will and we make our choices.

I encourage people to look at this from both a scientific and philosophical perspective

Me personally? I believe in free will. I believe I can make choices. However, to some extent I believe my environment determines who I am.

GameMaster · 02-10-2009, 04:27 AM

Hmm, I like to believe in determinism I guess.

The way I view it, there's certain things I want to do and things I dream about, and I've always had this strong belief that I'm destined to achieve those things.

And sometimes I worry I'm taking the wrong path to get there.

But believing in determinism reassures me that no matter what choices I make, all the paths are going to take me to the same spot.

And someone please explain to me the difference between determinism and fatalism.

Angrist · 02-10-2009, 09:05 AM

I believe in a free will.

Sure, God can know and predict everything, but he doesn't determine it.
Like if a wheatherman gives you a forecast, does that mean he controls the wheather?

God tells us in the bible to choose.
Deuteronomy 30:19,20:
"I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them."

Fyacin · 02-10-2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angrist

I believe in a free will.

Sure, God can know and predict everything, but he doesn't determine it.
Like if a wheatherman gives you a forecast, does that mean he controls the wheather?

God tells us in the bible to choose.
Deuteronomy 30:19,20:
"I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them."

*nods sagely*
Same here.

Neo · 02-10-2009, 11:43 AM

Free will is an illusion of experience arising from a complex neural system which is really just a glorified marble system governed by the laws of ballistic motion. If a super scientist had a map of your brain and knew where all the electrical impulses were located, he could predict exactly what you are going to say, think, and do for the rest of your life. Providing of course that he had you locked in a room where he could control external stimulus, and discounting quantum effects.

Not that it really matters. You're as free as you need to be. It makes no difference if your choices are predetermined as long as you're not technically being "forced" to make one particular choice over another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_de...ft_Determinism

BreakABone · 02-11-2009, 03:05 AM

This may be a selfish and pretty simplistic reason, but I believe in free will simply because it gives us a purpose in life.

I mean if the actions we perform don't actually have any say in what becomes of us, what's really the point.

I'm sure some could argue that you perform the actions on your own going towards your goal, but I just don't feel its the same.

KillerGremlin · 02-11-2009, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo

Free will is an illusion of experience arising from a complex neural system which is really just a glorified marble system governed by the laws of ballistic motion. If a super scientist had a map of your brain and knew where all the electrical impulses were located, he could predict exactly what you are going to say, think, and do for the rest of your life. Providing of course that he had you locked in a room where he could control external stimulus, and discounting quantum effects.

Not that it really matters. You're as free as you need to be. It makes no difference if your choices are predetermined as long as you're not technically being "forced" to make one particular choice over another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_de...ft_Determinism

How do you sleep at night?

And isn't discounting quantum effects....cheating?

I'm skeptical you will ever read this thread again, but I had two questions that I really can only direct at you since you're a physics whiz.

One is: what is your take on quantum mechanics? Is it legit or just a lot of theory still.....

The second one (which I never got to ask a physics prof.): My basic understanding is when you have an observer a wave particle collapses...if there was never an observer how would wave partices collapse? That is to say...how are we here.... I think my question is pretty dumb and illustrates my basic lack of understanding of physics, but with Wikipedia as a primary resource I figured maybe you could provide a simple explanation.

Professor S · 02-11-2009, 09:09 AM

The argument against determinism doesn't even need to involve quantum mechanics, but instead the recognition that a life devoid of stimulus is impossible. Anyone could tell you that if as person was born into a stimulus void that you could determine what they'd do... they'd float in a pool of their own filth with little to no brain activity at all. Stimulus and how we react to it is inherent to the human experience, and it the very building block on conscious thought.

Neo's statement was basically saying that if a human were unconscious, you would depict their every move... another breakthrough discovery published in the scientific journal "Duh".

This is why science should be removed from philosophy, because science demands a static universe where only what we "know" is considerable, to the point that unproven leading theories are treated as fact because the unknown cannot be engaged in scientific conversation. Philosophy is the examination of the unknown, so to use science as a measuring stick for philosophy is like examining an apple to learn about an orange.

Typhoid · 02-11-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

This is a great philosophical/hypothetical question. Do you believe life is determined and that there is a set path, or do you believe there is free will and we make our choices.

Even if you believe you have free will and can make your own choice, you can argue that your path was determined as such anyhow.

Nomatter what you do, it is not only your choice, but it is also what you're supposed to be doing at that exact minute - considering you are doing it. Everything you do in life, is what you're supposed to do. And everything you do in life, is a result of a series of your choices.