Obama's Economic Plan

Professor S · 01-05-2009, 09:10 AM

So far... it looks pretty good! I'm as shocked as anyone. It appears he may be the middle of the road negotiator and pragmatist he claimed he would be. If this turns out to be the case, I will be the first to admit I was wrong about him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17039.html

My only worry is that he tries to sneak in a prohibitive tax increase on the wealthy/large businesses/investors and an increase on marginal tax rates such as estate taxes and capital gains. Both of those taxes inhibit the development of wealth and thats not what we need right now. I'd be more tolerant of a compromise on these later, but not in this economy. I'd be ecstatic if he cut the taxes, but happy if he left them alone and proceeded with this plan he's work out to this point.

But so far so good. Go Barack!

EDIT: I should amend my statements to reflect I like the tax portion they've disclosed thus far, not the other $400 billion in spending. We'll have to wai and see where the rest of the money goes.

Jason1 · 01-05-2009, 08:33 PM

Wait, what? Obama is actually a good honest guy who actually just might do what he promised!

Blasphamy! He must have ties to Blagojavic, he just must!

Well what do you know, I was right all along and Professor was wrong...at least you'll admit your own stupidity.

Take a look at this thread, its all a good read, especially the 7th post...

http://www.gametavern.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18671

This is someone the Professor once predicted, and I quote, would be the "most damaging president in history"

Talk about your flip floppers...

Combine 017 · 01-05-2009, 08:42 PM

The only thing I noticed about the 7th post is that you spelled "ridiculous" wrong.

Fox 6 · 01-05-2009, 08:42 PM

Bad winner?

Jason1 · 01-05-2009, 08:46 PM

Oh comon it was too good an opportunity to pass up...as much as Professor bad mouthed Obama and now all of a sudden he has seen the light? I guess thats good, but comon...you cant blame me...

Fox 6 · 01-05-2009, 08:50 PM

How you react says a lot about you man. People hold you in higher regard when you can cook up a little grace and civility

Combine 017 · 01-05-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason1

Oh comon it was too good an opportunity to pass up...as much as Professor bad mouthed Obama and now all of a sudden he has seen the light? I guess thats good, but comon...you cant blame me...

Can and will.

The Germanator · 01-05-2009, 08:53 PM

I'd tend to agree. I supported Obama as much as anybody, but there's no need to be a dick about it now. The satisfaction is seeing that Professor sees a little bit what some of us saw a while ago. I find that encouraging with no need to stir things up. We already had the heated discussions months ago.

Jason1 · 01-05-2009, 10:04 PM

I disagree with you guys, I mean it would be different if, a few months ago, he was kinda like "well I like Obama, but I think Mcain will be a slightly better candidate." But as you all well know, it was nothing like that, Professor regularly devoted whole threads to bad mouthing Obama with outlandish claims about how he is terrible, ect. Now all of a sudden he likes the guy? Comon man Im a nice person at heart but I just HAVE to make fun of him for this...but I'll stop at that. I guess there's no need to press the issue, even if it is so damn much fun

TheGame · 01-05-2009, 11:50 PM

Honestly, Obama's actions have seemed to be pretty centrist (center-right even) to me. I'm atually shocked at how much he's trying to make the republican party work with him. Its good in a way, since its a movement in the right direction, but at the same time I hope he is realistic about it and recognizes that they will not play ball with him 100% and for political reasons will stand against him.

I'm not going to sit here and say I could see this coming.

Bond · 01-06-2009, 12:50 AM

Obama is shaping up to be a very Clinton-esque President.

KillerGremlin · 01-06-2009, 12:58 AM

Holy Obama, Batman!

The man isn't even in office yet. Perhaps we can all positively reflect on him after he has left office.

In the meantime, he's the guy in charge and the outcome is pending.

Professor S · 01-06-2009, 10:02 AM

Glad to see Jason handles himself with as much class after the election as he did before the election...

And for the record, Jason, my opposition to Obama was based on his prior actions and statements as a civil servant, and not his campaign promises. I judge people by actions, not words, but anyone can change, and like I said, "so far so good". I don't think I ate as much crow as you seem to think. He's not President yet.

And lets not jump the gun, either. My statements in my first post are based on the article from Politico I cited. In this he only talks about tax cuts and then more spending. So far it sounds pretty good, even though I don't like all of the extra spending (we've already spent over $1,000,000,000,000.00 on this recovery and we don't even know if what we spent will do anything yet).

As for the details of these tax cuts, we haven't seen them yet. There is reason to believe from his campaign rhetoric that part of these "cuts" may be checks cut to those who don't pay taxes at all, in the form of rebate checks. Checks are not tax cuts, they are just more spending with a different, deceptive name. This is marxism and if this ends up happening its all he'll need to do to turn my support into derision.

Also, we have to watch marginal tax rates, not just income, and if they are increased on capital gains, which would be idiocy if they want to help out the stock market. You don't encourage investment by taxing it the return on your risk.

Personally, I would raise the threshold of those who pay no federal tax, cut rates on all making up to $200,000.00 a year to no more than 17%, not touch taxes on those making more but make the Bush cuts permanent, lower capital gains to 10% but with a 1 year moritorium until 2010 to encourage investment, eliminate the estate tax as its both morally and legally abhorrent and also crushes the development of wealth over generations. Lastly, make up any loss by increasing tarriffs on good created outside of the country and provide a massive tax credit to any company, foreign or demestic, that produces more US jobs and additional credit for manufacturing jobs.

Tax wealth less, but by doing so, increase the amount of wealth that is taxable. Wealth is not static, and never has been.

Seth · 01-06-2009, 12:14 PM

I agree about estate tax being illegal. What happens when you can't pay that tax? Seizure of property? doesn't seem proper when one works so hard to maintain a lifestyle and another tax is introduced which effectively hands ownership to the state. Or is the estate tax something different.

As far as Obama, I don't see a bright future with him or McCain. As prof pointed out, much has been spent on the bailout, and there's a good chance that it could be all for nothing...except hyper-enflation.

Professor S · 01-06-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth

I agree about estate tax being illegal. What happens when you can't pay that tax? Seizure of property? doesn't seem proper when one works so hard to maintain a lifestyle and another tax is introduced which effectively hands ownership to the state. Or is the estate tax something different.

Estate taxes are also called "Death Taxes" because they tax an estate's wealth after the principle owner dies. The problem is that the wealth is being taxed a second time, as they already paid taxes on it when they were alive. On top of this, there are huge problems when the wealth is not liquid, but is instead in investments like annuities or even worse, property. It often forces the inheritor to sell the investment to pay the taxes on it, and land that has been in a family for generations is then forced into sale to cover expenses. The rich buy the property, and then profit from it.

Estate taxes destroy the ability of the middle class to build welath over generations, and they enforce the status quo as the rich get richer and the middle class reains middle class, instead of helping the MC overcome established class lines.

Quote:

As far as Obama, I don't see a bright future with him or McCain. As prof pointed out, much has been spent on the bailout, and there's a good chance that it could be all for nothing...except hyper-enflation.

I'm willing to give Obama a chance. So far he's batting a thousand, but again, thatmight be because he hasn't swung at a pitch yet. I agree though that this unthinkably stupid spending is going to end up biting us in the ass if we don't shift our international economic policy. The FED moving paper isn't going to keep inflation down for long.