Nintendo Revolution... More Like Retrolution

[Professor S]

I keep on having high hopes for Nintendo, and they continue to dash them all to Hell. The more I hear about the Revolution, the more I am reminded that Nintendo is just blind to the direction videogames are going, or even basic marketing sense.

1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to? Mario is quickly becoming irrelevant in the gaming world due to Nintendo's abuse of the property. It will only be a matter of time before we see Metroid Chess and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Shuffleboard.

3) The biggest stink over the Revolution that I've seen is the ability for it to download old Nintendo games from the history of the company, across all of its consoles: Ultimate Backwards Compatibility. Yeah, thats a great gimmick, but you don't go forward by looking to the past. I wish Nintendo would get over its gloried past, and realize that they are quickly on the way to becoming a distant third place gaming platform in the present. Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

I want Nintendo to succeed. I didn't buy a Gamecube so that it would sit in the back of my entertainment center gathering dust, yet there it remains. Nintendo's refusal to create new and exciting properties, and instead concentrate on gimmicky, perpheral driven enterprise (Donkey Konga and the DS Scribble Pad) has done more to alienate casual and even long time gamers than to recruit new ones. Initial sales of the first Konga game and DS were positive, but as is shown by the current sales figures, no one cares about a Konga game anymore and the DS is getting bitch slapped by the PSP. And the way that Nintendo is also alienating developers by creating such things as the need for a pair of Congos and a stylus is shown by the number of developers that are flocking to the PSP instead of the DS. Nintendo's hardware innovaltions are their biggest hindrance.

If Nintendo doesn't look at what others are doing right, and what they are doing wrong, then all they will be left with is their blindly loyal hardcore fan base.

Of course, this is merely my humble opinion.

[MuGen]

Hmmm.... no comment.

[Dark Samurai]

To each his own, I guess...

[Canyarion]

Make yourself a cup of relaxing tea.

But yeah, you make some points.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

I keep on having high hopes for Nintendo, and they continue to dash them all to Hell. The more I hear about the Revolution, the more I am reminded that Nintendo is just blind to the direction videogames are going, or even basic marketing sense.

Nintendo is in a different camp from Microsoft and Sony. Their products might not appeal to the masses but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

That is certainly true.

2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to?

It would appear not.

you don't go forward by looking to the past.

Nice

Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

I've heard Xbox fans state they bought their console because it matches their home entertainment rig.

I want Nintendo to succeed. I didn't buy a Gamecube so that it would sit in the back of my entertainment center gathering dust, yet there it remains. Nintendo's refusal to create new and exciting properties, and instead concentrate on gimmicky, perpheral driven enterprise (Donkey Konga and the DS Scribble Pad) has done more to alienate casual and even long time gamers than to recruit new ones.

Bongos may not make long-term business sense but I'm glad we have a company willing to try new things.

[Typhoid]

For once, Strangler, I agree with you.

[Perfect Stu]

You make a lot of good points, Strangler.

I basically have 2 problems with Nintendo right now...

a) they love to make people look into the past...and it's almost depressing in a way because I remember how much better Nintendo WAS in the past, as if it's a constant reminder as to how they've lost a step (or two, or three etc.)

b) they're not hitting me on the same wavelength, regarding market type. that's not THEIR problem, they've chosen who they want to target...but it has prevented me from buying any of their systems since N64...and I think a LOT of people are in the same boat as me there

also, I keep thinking that as a first year marketing student I would be able to improve their marketing strategy big time. and that's just sad...

[DarrenMcLeod]

Strangler, you made some great points, but they came off a little rushed because you brought up DK Bongos and DS as bad things, when I think it's great that a company is willing to take risks. Nintendo could've made a 3D portable like PSP (albeit not as sexily designed), and it would've sold. They're trying new things. I like it, many people also like it. Especially the bongos part... how does that affect your outlook on Nintendo? Sony has tons of dance pads and drum sets and stuff... it's great to see that stuff. Also, Nintendo's been doing this for a coon's age anyways.

[KillerGremlin]

I'm fine with Nintendo right now. The way I see, what comes around goes around. I've said it a few times here already, I really don't think Nintendo will survive the long haul. In two or three generations Nintendo will be calling up Sega asking for pointers, and as far as I'm concerned, that's fine. 3 consoles is frickin' ridiculous. I don't have a bottomless budget, and I'm getting tired of this "they each have their strengths" crap. They also have their weaknesses, and that's why I am opting to not get a new console this generation.

Regardless, I love the discussion. And, if I find a compelling enough of a rant, I'll jump in and throw my 2 cents at you. I like were you are going with all this, but, understand that people have been complaining for a while about Nintendo, and it's just a simple process of seeing hardcore fans lose faith in their beloved company.

In terms of this year's E3, Nintendo might pull a surprise out of their ass that blows everyone away. Yeah, I'm skeptical. I'm a cynical asshole though, so I'd advise you to not listen to or quote me.

All in all, I've been gaming for a really long time. And, the days of sitting in my friends basement playing Doom on his PC are over. I can't bring back those memories. I've had good memories over the years, and they don't involve pitching near 1000 dollars towards 3 companies just to play games because every console "has it's own advantage." So, if it were up to me, I'd like to see Nintendo anounce that they are going 3rd party for their big E3 surprise. It won't happen.

[Stonecutter]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

I keep on having high hopes for Nintendo, and they continue to dash them all to Hell. The more I hear about the Revolution, the more I am reminded that Nintendo is just blind to the direction videogames are going, or even basic marketing sense.

1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to? Mario is quickly becoming irrelevant in the gaming world due to Nintendo's abuse of the property. It will only be a matter of time before we see Metroid Chess and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Shuffleboard.

3) The biggest stink over the Revolution that I've seen is the ability for it to download old Nintendo games from the history of the company, across all of its consoles: Ultimate Backwards Compatibility. Yeah, thats a great gimmick, but you don't go forward by looking to the past. I wish Nintendo would get over its gloried past, and realize that they are quickly on the way to becoming a distant third place gaming platform in the present. Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

I want Nintendo to succeed. I didn't buy a Gamecube so that it would sit in the back of my entertainment center gathering dust, yet there it remains. Nintendo's refusal to create new and exciting properties, and instead concentrate on gimmicky, perpheral driven enterprise (Donkey Konga and the DS Scribble Pad) has done more to alienate casual and even long time gamers than to recruit new ones. Initial sales of the first Konga game and DS were positive, but as is shown by the current sales figures, no one cares about a Konga game anymore and the DS is getting bitch slapped by the PSP. And the way that Nintendo is also alienating developers by creating such things as the need for a pair of Congos and a stylus is shown by the number of developers that are flocking to the PSP instead of the DS. Nintendo's hardware innovaltions are their biggest hindrance.

If Nintendo doesn't look at what others are doing right, and what they are doing wrong, then all they will be left with is their blindly loyal hardcore fan base.

Of course, this is merely my humble opinion.

Edit: Woahhhhhhh when it double posted, it chopped off half of my post.

You're absolutely right and you're getting plus repped for this, but you missed what I believe to be the biggest point.


Nintendo is stubborn.

The simply will not give gamers what we want. They tell us what we want and then stuff it down our throats. See Zelda Wind Waker. Only the most fervent, mindless Nintendo sheep liked it at first. Even those who were opened minded didn't really "like" it when it was first announced. Now sure, a lot of people warmed to it and it turned out to be a great game, but does anyone remember what it was liked when that thing was first showed back in 02?

There was so much backlash at the time, I'll bet it cost N 1,000,000 cubes over the life of the system. Extrapolate that number out to games and accessories....

People that were going to buy a cube but didn't get one at launch bought other systems because of Celda. If the Zelda that we're going to get later this year had been released in march 03 Nintendo would have probably sold an extra million or two systems to play that game. This Zelda could have been the gamecube's Halo, but now it's going to come out in the last year of the systems life, and even though everybody that already has a cube is going to buy it, almost no one will be buying a Cube FOR it, and even if they do, they're probably not going to be buying dozens of other games like they might have in the past 18 months if they'd have picked up a realistic Zelda in 03.

Another huge problem is the stuffing the franchises down our throats. Yeah, I want a Zelda, Mario and Metroid game to come out for my Nintendo system, and yeah SSBM, and Mario Golf are great games, and cool franchises, but for the love of god, Mario is whored out to everything now. Look at RE4, that is such an amazing game graphics and gameplay wise. Why hasn't the power of this system been put to use like that more often? I'm not a graphics whore but guess what, 90% of the people who play games ARE, and it is flat out ignorant to suggest that it's OK for Nintendo games to look substandard when the system is capable of so much more. FZero and RE4 prove that the cube can hold its own vs the Xbox in the visuals department but it's rarely tried.

It's a cyclical process. If the games look better, then more people will buy the system and the games, which will allow the developers to be more adventurous because sales are easier to come by, which will lead to more niche games being developed, which will allow more systems to be sold, which will allow more money to be spent on development, which will produce better looking games, which will sell even more systems.

Then there's the DVD, or lack there of. Nobody really gives a **** anymore in 2005 about the DVD player because everyone has a DVD player, but back in 2001 it wasn't nearly as prevalent as it is today. I remember the fanboy scream from back then too. IF YOU WANT SOMETHING THAT PLAYS DVDs BUY A DVD PLAYER. Thank you very much, Watson, now sit down and shut up. It didn't matter to people that the DVD player in the ps2 was ****, and it didn't matter much that to make xbox play dvds you had to hand over an extra 30 beans. What mattered was that they were getting the newest and best gaming system AND A DVD PLAYER! HOLY **** COOL! Not with the cube though. It did keep the cost down, but that didn't factor into as many decisions as "you get a dvd player with it!"

Then there's online play.

Does anyone still want to argue this one?

[gekko]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

I keep on having high hopes for Nintendo, and they continue to dash them all to Hell. The more I hear about the Revolution, the more I am reminded that Nintendo is just blind to the direction videogames are going, or even basic marketing sense.

1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to? Mario is quickly becoming irrelevant in the gaming world due to Nintendo's abuse of the property. It will only be a matter of time before we see Metroid Chess and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Shuffleboard.

3) The biggest stink over the Revolution that I've seen is the ability for it to download old Nintendo games from the history of the company, across all of its consoles: Ultimate Backwards Compatibility. Yeah, thats a great gimmick, but you don't go forward by looking to the past. I wish Nintendo would get over its gloried past, and realize that they are quickly on the way to becoming a distant third place gaming platform in the present. Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

I want Nintendo to succeed. I didn't buy a Gamecube so that it would sit in the back of my entertainment center gathering dust, yet there it remains. Nintendo's refusal to create new and exciting properties, and instead concentrate on gimmicky, perpheral driven enterprise (Donkey Konga and the DS Scribble Pad) has done more to alienate casual and even long time gamers than to recruit new ones. Initial sales of the first Konga game and DS were positive, but as is shown by the current sales figures, no one cares about a Konga game anymore and the DS is getting bitch slapped by the PSP. And the way that Nintendo is also alienating developers by creating such things as the need for a pair of Congos and a stylus is shown by the number of developers that are flocking to the PSP instead of the DS. Nintendo's hardware innovaltions are their biggest hindrance.

If Nintendo doesn't look at what others are doing right, and what they are doing wrong, then all they will be left with is their blindly loyal hardcore fan base.

Of course, this is merely my humble opinion.

Right, right, right, and wrong.

You're getting on Nintendo's case for doing nothing wrong. Is there anything wrong with ultimate backwards compatability? No. In fact, this isn't new, it's what Microsoft tried to do with the Live Arcade. Offer retro games that are downloadable. Only difference is Nintendo can offer much better games.

Is there any problem with peripherals? I actually consider it to be one of the greatest things DC had to offer. They brought a completely different gaming experience to your home, by offering an assortment of peripherals to include fishing rods, arcade sticks, steering wheels, keyboards, mice, light guns, maracas, and more with most avaliable from launch or shortly after. Peripherals are a great way to bring a unique experience to the home console, as well as offer an in-home port of popular arcade games.

If all Nintendo brings to the table is this, then there is a problem. But don't get on their case for offering it.

[Xantar]

Being as we still don't know anything about the Revolution, I think it's pretty premature to bash them. And I'm not saying this just as a Nintendo fan. I wouldn't have bashed Microsoft or Sony if they hadn't shown their next generation consoles either. Personally, I just don't care about the next generation. It's offering nothing new to me except prettier graphics, but that's not going to be enough for me to fork over several hundred dollars.

You can criticize Nintendo for not hyping up the Revolution enough (although there's the whole Thursdayton thing to worry about), but I say we should wait until we actually know something about their plans before we worry. In the grand scheme of things, E3 isn't even really very important. Lots of people think Nintendo had the best show of them all at the last E3, and look what that did for them.

Oh by the way, the PSP is not in fact bitchslapping the DS. The PSP seems to have lost a lot of momentum, actually, and it didn't even have all that strong a launch to begin with by Sony's standards. Right now, thanks to Nintendogs, the DS is leaving the PSP in the dust in Japan. Whether that will happen in the U.S. is another story, but right now, I'm not worried about it.

Oh and incidentally, since when did you know what the gamers want?

[Stray_Bullet]

Originally Posted by gekko

Is there any problem with peripherals? I actually consider it to be one of the greatest things DC had to offer. They brought a completely different gaming experience to your home, by offering an assortment of peripherals to include fishing rods, arcade sticks, steering wheels, keyboards, mice, light guns, maracas, and more with most avaliable from launch or shortly after. Peripherals are a great way to bring a unique experience to the home console, as well as offer an in-home port of popular arcade games.

And as we have seen from past trial and error, that definately sells. It is the reason why Dreamcast was the #1 system of its time. Of course... its time just happened to be between generations.

[DarrenMcLeod]

Xantar is right about E3 meaning very little. Nintendo has "won" the show many times in the last few years, and the show is in the US, but GameCube did the worst in North America out of the three systems. Ask all of your Halo/GTA/Madden loving jocks what they thought of E3, or the seven year old kid who loves Pokemon. They won't know what the hell you're talking about, but that's the main part of the market right there.

[gekko]

Who cares if it sells?

That's the problem with gaming today, it's too business oriented. It's not about fun and entertainment, it's about sales. Sega wasn't worried about sales when it released games that had you talking to fish, slaughtering zombies with a keyboard, and dancing with maracas. Capcom wasn't worried about sales when they released a $200 game with the world's largest controller, and followed it up with an online-only sequel to further limit sales.

It all makes perfect sense if you look at it. Nintendo may trail in sales, but they have a loyal following. Sega may be all but dead, but the Sega still has a cult following. Apple owns 5% of the marketshare, yet they have a huge following. There's two different types of companies, the ones that care only about the money, and the ones that are passionate about what they do. Just as Apple continued raking in huge profits, they continue to only hold 5% of the market. Yet, they don't care, they go to work making better products. The result? I'd be hard-pressed to find another company with as high of a customer satisfaction rate as Apple.

I see Nintendo taking the same path. They have never had a money issue, since I don't think they ever reported a loss, even at the console's launch. They may not sell, they may not dominate the industry again, but as long as they keep delivering a better gaming experience, their cult following will be there, standing by their side, waiting for whatever might come next.

The gaming industry has always been run by people who enjoy games. Today that passion has been lost to business practices. Is it any wonder that I get bored to death by today's blockbuster titles like Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, Grand Theft Auto, Halo and Metroid, yet I am anxiously awaiting returning to my room so I can continue playing Alien Hominid?

3 brand new consoles have just been announced. For the first time in my life, I am not looking forward to them, and I'm not the only one. So much for those sales.