President Obama Healthcare Speech

[Bond]

The Senate Finance Committee rejected the public option today.

[magus113]

Am I surprised? No.

Am I pissed? You bet your ass.

[KillerGremlin]

A disappointing moral loss?

I haven't had time to follow this, but where will it go from here?

[TheGame]

I'm not suprised either. There needs to be reform to campaign financing before the public option would ever get passed. I'd be very shocked if it won out in the end.

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

A disappointing moral loss?

I haven't had time to follow this, but where will it go from here?

Still a lot of discussing to be done. They're looking into ways to extend coverage and lower costs.. however, it looks like if there's no public option.. they're going to extend coverage and do nothing about costs.

[Professor S]

They couldn't convince the American people that their version of a government run healthcare would work, and then they couldn't even backdoor it in committee with a large majority (never mind the bill wouldn't pass if the amendment was attached).

Meanwhile, the progressive caucus is looking to destroy any bill that doesn't have government run healthcare included, and moderate democrats won't vote for any bill with government healthcare included.

Wow, with all this in-fighting you'd think they were the Republican party... and like with social security reform the likelihood is nothing will get accomplished if the current climate persists.

[TheGame]

They couldn't convince the American people that their version of a government run healthcare would work

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5098517.shtml

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=112818960

We can speculate about if people are against how the healthcare change is being handled now because of the public option, or because it won't include the public option all day. But the fact of the matter is 'the people' and 'the doctors' want a public option for health insurance. Poll after poll after poll shows this.

If the public option doesn't pass, its not because the people didn't want it, its because the influences in washington didn't want it.

[magus113]

Everyone's got the hands in the pot up on Capitol Hill and it's really disappointing to see people more concerned about profits over the people.

It really is a sad state of affairs. I have medical conditions that REQUIRE health insurance, so now I HAVE to find a job that will have health insurance and benefits that will be able to cover the costs, or at least cover them well enough.

Personally I don't see this happening, but all I know is that as soon as I'm 23 I'm gonna be in big trouble. I was SERIOUSLY hoping this would happen.

So here's to my health insurance co.,Cigna. You greedy bastards.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5098517.shtml

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=112818960.

We can speculate about if people are against how the healthcare change is being handled now because of the public option, or because it won't include the public option all day. But the fact of the matter is 'the people' and 'the doctors' want a public option for health insurance. Poll after poll after poll shows this.

If the public option doesn't pass, its not because the people didn't want it, its because the influences in washington didn't want it.

Game, I don't feel like dancing this same tired dance again (we can both read it in previous posts in this thread). I'll just end my side of the argument (again) by restating the obvious:

Are people in favor of a government run option? Yes. You may as well ask people if they are in favor of free sandwiches. Who doesn't want a free sandwich?

Have people been in favor of any government run option that has been presented to them by their government? No, because when people look at the reality of government run healthcare they don't like what they see. Thats why every poll since JULY that has asked opinions on the CURRENT government run healthcare bills has shown that a majority of people don't favor that specific legislation. If anyone would like to page back a few they'll see the polls and reports that reflect this FACT, but honestly if you didn't bother to read it and process it the first time I doubt you will the second.

People don't want the free sandwich anymore when they find out it's filled with razor blades. The idea of the free sandwich is wonderful, but once they take a bite they want to spit it out.

[TheGame]

Oh trust me Prof, I understand your side. That's why I threw in "We can speculate about if people are against how the healthcare change is being handled now because of the public option, or because it won't include the public option all day."

I'm just pointing out the fact that the majority of people are in favor of having a public option. Therefore, imo, it makes more sense that Obama's losing support because he's not strongly backing it anymore.

-EDIT-

I may as well ask, because I'm curious. What part of the concept of the public option are people fighting against? (And I mean someone who would say they want a public option in a poll, but who is against the public option concept as-is now.) And what evidence do you have to support this?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Oh trust me Prof, I understand your side. That's why I threw in "We can speculate about if people are against how the healthcare change is being handled now because of the public option, or because it won't include the public option all day."

I'm just pointing out the fact that the majority of people are in favor of having a public option. Therefore, imo, it makes more sense that Obama's losing support because he's not strongly backing it anymore.

Except if you look at the Rasmussen numbers I posted earlier and read the whole article where they basically reiterate my points.

I may as well ask, because I'm curious. What part of the concept of the public option are people fighting against? (And I mean someone who would say they want a public option in a poll, but who is against the public option concept as-is now.) And what evidence do you have to support this?

Once again, look at the Rasmussen report I posted. It's based on months of poll numbers.

As for what people are fighting against: They have made themselves quite clear and we've posted the arguments against the government run option (HR 3200) many times.

EDIT: I'll add a new one. People want their representatives to actually read the bill before voting on it, and the people themselves would like a chance to read it and understand it before a vote takes place..

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Except if you look at the Rasmussen numbers I posted earlier and read the whole article where they basically reiterate my points.

Once again, look at the Rasmussen report I posted. It's based on months of poll numbers.

I've looked at those links before, and I don't see a poll where its specifically asked if people are in favor of having a public option or not. Most of their questions are based on the performance of the government now, and the numbers keep falling more and more as the government's support for the public option drops.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...rats_collapses

Also I notice they tend to push the terms "single payer" and "governemnt run healthcare" moreso then "public option for insurance". I may be overlooking it, though.. I've just spent 20 minutes searchign for a poll in which they asked people specifically if they want a public option for healthcare insurance or not.

EDIT: I'll add a new one. People want their representatives to actually read the bill before voting on it, and the people themselves would like a chance to read it and understand it before a vote takes place..

I could agree to that, also we shouldn't add one penny to the deficit.. because no good president would do that, right?

[Professor S]

Game, the semantic games played in the first part of your post aren't appreciated.

The overall picture remains one of stability. Today’s record low support for the plan of 41% is just a point lower than the results found twice before. With the exception of a slight bounce earlier this month following the president’s nationally televised speech to Congress to promote the plan, support for it has remained in the low-to-mid 40s since early July. During that same time period, opposition has generally stayed in the low-to-mid 50s.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform

Originally Posted by TheGame

I could agree to that, also we shouldn't add one penny to the deficit.. because no good president would do that, right?

Well by your standard "good" Pres. Obama is 20 times worse than Bush and is by far the worst President ever!



But thats off topic, isn't it

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Game, the semantic games played in the first part of your post aren't appreciated.

Nor are the semantic games played on those polls. There's no direct mention of people's support for the public option for healthcare insurance. While I'd agree that support for the plans in washington have lowered, I just disagree with the reasons.

[Bond]

The reality is that the Democrats have a 60 seat majority in the Senate. 60 seats! They should be able to ram through any kind of legislation they please through multiple different tactics, but they couldn't pass the public option.

Either the party is incompetent, or it is simply not its will to pass the public option. I would side with the latter.

The unfortunate thing is meaningful reform may not be passed.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Bond

The reality is that the Democrats have a 60 seat majority in the Senate. 60 seats! They should be able to ram through any kind of legislation they please through multiple different tactics, but they couldn't pass the public option.

It boils down to them not wanting to fight against companies who pay them. That's why there's a civil war in the democratic party right now... Its good politics that the american people want vs good campaign donations. And as long as the republican party keeps looking and acting like morons in this situation, they're not scared of losing votes to them.. However, losing campaign contributions by going against private insurers is a bigger threat.