President Obama Healthcare Speech

[TheGame]

Oh trust me Prof, I understand your side. That's why I threw in "We can speculate about if people are against how the healthcare change is being handled now because of the public option, or because it won't include the public option all day."

I'm just pointing out the fact that the majority of people are in favor of having a public option. Therefore, imo, it makes more sense that Obama's losing support because he's not strongly backing it anymore.

-EDIT-

I may as well ask, because I'm curious. What part of the concept of the public option are people fighting against? (And I mean someone who would say they want a public option in a poll, but who is against the public option concept as-is now.) And what evidence do you have to support this?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Oh trust me Prof, I understand your side. That's why I threw in "We can speculate about if people are against how the healthcare change is being handled now because of the public option, or because it won't include the public option all day."

I'm just pointing out the fact that the majority of people are in favor of having a public option. Therefore, imo, it makes more sense that Obama's losing support because he's not strongly backing it anymore.

Except if you look at the Rasmussen numbers I posted earlier and read the whole article where they basically reiterate my points.

I may as well ask, because I'm curious. What part of the concept of the public option are people fighting against? (And I mean someone who would say they want a public option in a poll, but who is against the public option concept as-is now.) And what evidence do you have to support this?

Once again, look at the Rasmussen report I posted. It's based on months of poll numbers.

As for what people are fighting against: They have made themselves quite clear and we've posted the arguments against the government run option (HR 3200) many times.

EDIT: I'll add a new one. People want their representatives to actually read the bill before voting on it, and the people themselves would like a chance to read it and understand it before a vote takes place..

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Except if you look at the Rasmussen numbers I posted earlier and read the whole article where they basically reiterate my points.

Once again, look at the Rasmussen report I posted. It's based on months of poll numbers.

I've looked at those links before, and I don't see a poll where its specifically asked if people are in favor of having a public option or not. Most of their questions are based on the performance of the government now, and the numbers keep falling more and more as the government's support for the public option drops.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...rats_collapses

Also I notice they tend to push the terms "single payer" and "governemnt run healthcare" moreso then "public option for insurance". I may be overlooking it, though.. I've just spent 20 minutes searchign for a poll in which they asked people specifically if they want a public option for healthcare insurance or not.

EDIT: I'll add a new one. People want their representatives to actually read the bill before voting on it, and the people themselves would like a chance to read it and understand it before a vote takes place..

I could agree to that, also we shouldn't add one penny to the deficit.. because no good president would do that, right?

[Professor S]

Game, the semantic games played in the first part of your post aren't appreciated.

The overall picture remains one of stability. Today’s record low support for the plan of 41% is just a point lower than the results found twice before. With the exception of a slight bounce earlier this month following the president’s nationally televised speech to Congress to promote the plan, support for it has remained in the low-to-mid 40s since early July. During that same time period, opposition has generally stayed in the low-to-mid 50s.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform

Originally Posted by TheGame

I could agree to that, also we shouldn't add one penny to the deficit.. because no good president would do that, right?

Well by your standard "good" Pres. Obama is 20 times worse than Bush and is by far the worst President ever!



But thats off topic, isn't it

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Game, the semantic games played in the first part of your post aren't appreciated.

Nor are the semantic games played on those polls. There's no direct mention of people's support for the public option for healthcare insurance. While I'd agree that support for the plans in washington have lowered, I just disagree with the reasons.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Nor are the semantic games played on those polls. There's no direct mention of people's support for the public option for healthcare insurance. While I'd agree that support for the plans in washington have lowered, I just disagree with the reasons.

The Rasmussen article you posted even disagrees with your assessment.

Last week, Rasmussen Reports tracking found that support for the Congressional plan was at 42%.

While the tracking question did not specifically mention the public option, it referred to the bill proposed by the president and congressional Democrats now working its way through Congress.

The fact is that bill included a "public option" as it's central building block at the time, amongst other unpalatable items, and everyone knew it.

The fact remains that while people want A public option, once they see the details of what it means to them and healthcare in general, support PLUMMETS.

These numbers continue to support the same rational conlcusion that Rasmussen, the professionals in this venue, came to in September.

The overall picture remains one of stability. Today’s record low support for the plan of 41% is just a point lower than the results found twice before. With the exception of a slight bounce earlier this month following the president’s nationally televised speech to Congress to promote the plan, support for it has remained in the low-to-mid 40s since early July. During that same time period, opposition has generally stayed in the low-to-mid 50s.

If the Rasmussen numbers going back to July don't reflect people's dislike of the "public option", what do they reflect dislike of? Remember, the public option wasn't off the table until early September, I believe (or late August).

And you keep going back to special interests, but to be honest there has never been as much special interest SUPPORT for a government run healthcare option. Even the Pharma companies are now supporting it.

A day after the U.S. Chamber of Commerce launched a multi-million TV ad warning against the Obama administration's healthcare plan, the American Medical Association and the Service Employees International Union on Thursday began a blitz of their own, with the support of pharmaceutical companies and the Federation of American Hospitals.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7016090716

As Bond said, the bottom line is they can't get it done. If there was overwhelming support for these plans, they would get done regardless because politicians need to get elected and to do that they need votes. It's simple. People make it complicated.

[TheGame]

If the Rasmussen numbers going back to July don't reflect people's dislike of the "public option", what do they reflect dislike of? Remember, the public option wasn't off the table until early September, I believe (or late August).

Dislike of reaching out to republicans on something they'd never approve of. The public option has been off the table as long as Obama has felt it nessicary for republicans to agree with healthcare reform.

So once again, those polls don't directly ask people if they want a public option for healthcare or not. They're asking people what they think of how the white house is handling things now. Two completly different questions.

As Bond said, the bottom line is they can't get it done. If there was overwhelming support for these plans, they would get done regardless because politicians need to get elected and to do that they need votes. It's simple. People make it complicated.

The problem is that the republicans have went of the deep end so bad, that democrats don't think its nessicary to make a public option to hold onto votes. Just like they don't think its nessicary to make gay marriage legal to hold onto votes. Because the people they're screwing will vote for them anyway.

You can either vote for the person who supports your ideas but doesn't really push for them.. or the person who fights against your ideas.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Dislike of reaching out to republicans on something they'd never approve of. The public option has been off the table as long as Obama has felt it nessicary for republicans to agree with healthcare reform.

So once again, those polls don't directly ask people if they want a public option for healthcare or not. They're asking people what they think of how the white house is handling things now. Two completly different questions.

Once again, Rasmussen disagrees with your assessment of their polls.

Last week, Rasmussen Reports tracking found that support for the Congressional plan was at 42%.

While the tracking question did not specifically mention the public option, it referred to the bill proposed by the president and congressional Democrats now working its way through Congress.

The problem is that the republicans have went of the deep end so bad, that democrats don't think its nessicary to make a public option to hold onto votes. Just like they don't think its nessicary to make gay marriage legal to hold onto votes. Because the people they're screwing will vote for them anyway.

Ok, so now it IS about winning votes, and therefore a reflection of the will of the people? Then we have nothing to disagree on. I thought it was about special interest interference. By the way, it's spelled "necessary".

You can either vote for the person who supports your ideas but doesn't really push for them.. or the person who fights against your ideas.

Ok, but I fail to see how this is relevant to the discussion at hand. Either way, you've basically conceded the point and agree that the main force in this issue IS the will of the people, unless I've completely misread your post.