BaB Presents: Where'd Wii go Wrong

[Angrist]

People just care too much about graphics.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Angrist

People just care too much about graphics.

Well, like most things, it depends.

My favorite wrestling game of all time is Wrestlemania 2000 (or better yet, my import of Virtual pro Wrestling 2) for the N64. I still play that game to this day, and I love it for one reason: Gameplay. To this day I believe it is the single greatest fighting engine ever created. I picked it up after about 5 years of not playing it once, I intuitively knew how to play the game.

But keep in mind, the entire point of that game is gameplay. There is no real story, beyond fighting enough matches to earn money and unlock moves, hidden characters and skins. So poor graphics don't take anything away from that game because there is nothing for those graphics to augment.

Now try tanslating that to a game such as Devil May Cry, SOTC, Oni, Doom 3, The Condemned or Resident Evil... Those games depend on graphics to create a mood and help tell the story. If you have pathetic graphics in those types of games, it would kill what those games are trying to accomplish.

[Angrist]

Setting a mood is done by art, not by polygons. I thought you'd know.

[KillerGremlin]

I'm pretty much done with this thread, I've had enough with the roundabouts. And I like the Wii. We need the next thread so everyone can rip apart the PS3 and the Xbox 360, just a quick final thought in response to BreakABone and Angrist:

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I've already pointed out that I feel the Wii has already had an impact on the FPS genre. If it goes further than the Wii isn't up to me. But in terms of controls/interactivity the bar has been raised.

I still disagree with you, but you're arguing with a PC gamer that has been shooting stuff since Doom. I don't think consoles have yet to forward the genre, and that includes the Wii, regardless of the Wiimote's increased interactivity.

Originally Posted by BreakABone

What the hell are the Ps3 and 360?

It will be very interesting to see what the future holds for Sony and Microsoft and motion control.

Originally Posted by Angrist

Setting a mood is done by art, not by polygons. I thought you'd know.

That's not entirely true. Processing power/graphical power plays a pretty big role. Grand Theft Auto laid down the processor smack down. And games like Ocarina of Time have a great combination of AMAZING art style and console horsepower. I always mention Jet Set Radio, one of my favorite games, because I think it had a great combination of art style but needed some decent horsepower to run. I think we've murdered this discussion at GT already. But I agree with you for the most part, one of my still favorite games is No One Lives Forever, which came out in 2000 and runs on a modified Unreal engine (I think). It still has some of the best level design I have ever seen in an FPS.



Now...where is our thread where we get to criticize Sony and Microsoft?

[BreakABone]

Hate to bump this thread, but didn't feel like starting a new one. I think this is an interesting way to look at shovelware on the Wii.

Let’s put it this way, I’ve certainly heard the criticism that there’s too much crap on the Wii and that all these awful titles are dragging the system down but there’s another way to look at that which is to say that Nintendo basically believes in a free market. I don’t think I’m giving away any state secrets when I say that Nintendo, by having a huge selection of software on their system, puts the consumers in control. Having a lot of software on the system means yes, a higher percentage of it is going to be bad, but it also means that you’re going to get some gems and the consumer will be able to make up their own mind. So every time I hear that there’s too much crap on the Wii my reflexive response is, ‘wait a second, have you walked down a grocery isle recently?’ Consumers get to make choices - do you really want someone else to do your thinking for you?

http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option...1&limitstart=2

[Aladuf]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Hate to bump this thread, but didn't feel like starting a new one. I think this is an interesting way to look at shovelware on the Wii.

http://next-gen.biz/index.php?option...1&limitstart=2

What a shitty way to attempt at justifying all of the Wii's shovelware! Come on.

[Dyne]

Well, that's probably the best spin you could do. At least you can't complain the Wii doesn't HAVE any third party stuff. Whether it's good is another question.

[Angrist]

Most developers just don't have any idea what to do on the Wii.

[Perfect Stu]

It's spin. The guy is supposed to say something like that. However, it's fairly weak. At the same time, I don't blame him for saying it.

[BreakABone]

In his defense, he isn't a Nintendo guy so its not like he has to say it.

On the same hand, he has a point there is a ton of shit for the Ps2 and PSX but no one mentions that because at the end of the gen the only games that matter are the good ones.

[Renwood]

Shovelware doesn't impede good games from being developed. The amount of truly great games is consistent across the big three. A handful. You can pick apart that handful based on your own preferences, but more generally, it is accepted that there are a couple gems a year that the majority of people recognize as such.

After that, it's just gradients of shit. The more popular you are, the more shit you attract, because the more likely that, given your popularity and market presence, anything will sell in some amount. Maybe enough to justify production of bland, unexciting tripe. Licensed shit is the worst of the worst, and that infects all platforms. The Wii is easier to develop quick and dirty riff-raff for. Its got more consoles in peoples' homes. It is marketed better to kids and to parents that will be less discerning in taste.

But truly good games will get made and will sell regardless of what system you talk about. Depending on how prude you want to be with your selectiveness, you can find around five or six games a year that will be exceptional.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

In his defense, he isn't a Nintendo guy so its not like he has to say it.

On the same hand, he has a point there is a ton of shit for the Ps2 and PSX but no one mentions that because at the end of the gen the only games that matter are the good ones.

I think Nintendo set the tone themselves. They released the system fast with mediocre graphics and shallow games, and made millions. 3rd parties see Nintendo doing it so they're trying to do the same thing. Cheapest development cost possible to get something on the shelves so the casual gamers might be confused enough and mistake it for a good game.

And I'm pretty sure I remember people talking about all the crap on Ps2 and Psx. The difference between Ps2 and Wii relitive to their own generations is Ps2 had all the mainstream 3rd party games alongside the crap. While Wii is missing quite a bit of games that are mainstream and Ps3/360 only at the time. (And the mainstream 3rd party titles it has are pretty much considered by hardcore fans of those games to be the worst versions)

I remember on AIM you said Wii will probably get decent versions of GTA and FF. We'll see.. haven't seen the announcement yet. I still don't really compare wii directly with the other consoles.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by TheGame

I think Nintendo set the tone themselves. They released the system fast with mediocre graphics and shallow games, and made millions. 3rd parties see Nintendo doing it so they're trying to do the same thing. Cheapest development cost possible to get something on the shelves so the casual gamers might be confused enough and mistake it for a good game.

I wouldn't say that is true. Well yeah they are copying the earlier success but games like Red Steel did well at launch as well. And Zelda but we won't count that.

And I'm pretty sure I remember people talking about all the crap on Ps2 and Psx. The difference between Ps2 and Wii relitive to their own generations is Ps2 had all the mainstream 3rd party games alongside the crap. While Wii is missing quite a bit of games that are mainstream and Ps3/360 only at the time. (And the mainstream 3rd party titles it has are pretty much considered by hardcore fans of those games to be the worst versions)

That is pretty true.

I remember on AIM you said Wii will probably get decent versions of GTA and FF. We'll see.. haven't seen the announcement yet. I still don't really compare wii directly with the other consoles.

How the hell do you remember what I said on AIM? I don't think I've spoken to you in months.

[Renwood]

Originally Posted by TheGame

I think Nintendo set the tone themselves. They released a cheaper-to-produce and cheaper-to-purchase system at the same time as their competitors with last-gen graphics and good games, and made billions.

No, no third parties have quite mimicked their success. I'd say because most third parties don't make good Wii games. Those that do reap the benefits. Those that don't still tend to make a profit, because the Wii is successful.

Since they care about profit more than you, the consumer, who they care about not at all as long as they get their money, the tone is set, not by Nintendo, but by the people who are willing to fork over the green for less-than-stellar video games.

Stupid consumers are stupid.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

How the hell do you remember what I said on AIM? I don't think I've spoken to you in months.

Cause I love you.