Buyng a Gun

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Combine 017

That would be sweet!
I need to figure out a way to rig my car like that.

I think they actually had those in Australia for a while...

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Ok, but I don't live in Canada, and to be honest my scenarios have nothing to do with nationality. These are situations that could happen to anyone, anywhere. In those scenarios, do you believe the response is legitimate, or not. If not, what would be your alternative.

I'm well aware you don't live in Canada.
I do. Which is why I, and Dylan have a different view on these things.


Because when you said:

Could you give me feedback on the situations I detailed earlier? After much thought, I think these are realistic expectations to real life situations.

I thought "Wait a minute, that's not a realistic situation or response for me, I better explain why in order to make it valid", so I said:

Why don't we just take it as the fact I live in Vancouver, Canada - and you live in the U.S....It's maybe not that I'm twisting my entire idea of the scenario itself, but rather the scenario itself is not likely to happen here.

Those situations could happen anywhere, sure. Just like at any moment a Jumbo Jet can smash through anyones house at any given time.
But realistically, no - that scenario isn't likely to happen everywhere.

Like I was trying to say - our view is different on this because A) Guns are illegal, so people who break in don't have them - because people don't defend their houses with them B) People here don't break in with intent to kill, maim or rape - they break in with intent to steal shit and will flee if you wake up, or they hear your voice.

I don't know why you seem to think Canada is the same as the US in this aspect, but you're mistaken. We have crime, and we have murder. But not like that. We use alarm systems for our cars, and houses. They work just fine.

Nobody I know who has an alarm has ever been broken into, and nobody I know has ever had the thought "I need a gun to protect my family because someone might try to murder or rape them." It doesn't happen here.

Like I said, difference of opinion based on the likelihood of situations.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Combine 017

That would be sweet!
I need to figure out a way to rig my car like that.

Yeah - there was a prototype for one a guy was trying to sell - that's why I brought it up, because it never got off the ground because compare to an alarm system it's ridiculously impractical.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Nobody I know who has an alarm has ever been broken into, and nobody I know has ever had the thought "I need a gun to protect my family because someone might try to murder or rape them." It doesn't happen here.

Like I said, difference of opinion based on the likelihood of situations.

Typhoid, at this point I just think you're trying to avoid the question I asked. I asked you to respond to pretty specific scenarios, but you still seem stuck on location for some reason, so lets try this one:

Imagine you do live in America and as the stats I linked point out, people DO break in to assault and rape. Now what do you think about the scenarios I provided. Are they reasonable responses considering the situation?

[Seth]

I'd maybe like to mention that RCMP do in fact shoot to kill. Most of the time if someone is showing signs of possible violence, the officer assumes that their life is in danger and more often than not a few bullets are fired at the torso. 'Maiming' isn't clipping elbows, it's subduing by bullets to the torso. Granted, there are officers with common sense enough to tear apart someone's calf or femur if the assailant isn't posing an instant threat(approaching with a knife).
I sometimes think it would be better to have a bullet to a limb instead of the freaky tazering...but there's always the chance that the officer didn't get his morning cup of coffee.

bang bang bang

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Typhoid, at this point I just think you're trying to avoid the question I asked. I asked you to respond to pretty specific scenarios, but you still seem stuck on location for some reason, so lets try this one:

Imagine you do live in America and as the stats I linked point out, people DO break in to assault and rape. Now what do you think about the scenarios I provided. Are they reasonable responses considering the situation?

To be fair when you asked before you never said "Imagine you live in the US" you just said "Imagine if this is happening" which I can't do, because it's not probable for me.


Would I buy a gun to protect my family if I lived in the US? No. Maybe if I was getting broken into constantly, and the alarm system and deadbolt/latches clearly weren't doing their proper job - maybe I'd buy a gun, yes. But just as a "Hey, it could happen" type thing, I wouldn't. I stand firm on my comment of "guns are for hunting."

However assuming breaking and entering where murder and rape are common things, which they apparently are - I would move. What better way to protect your family from getting killed or raped than removing them from the situation itself.

I'd maybe like to mention that RCMP do in fact shoot to kill.

RCMP aren't 'cops'. They're the 'special cops'. I meant normal police officers.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Uhm...

I'm a bit more worried about the danger that having this gun poses on your family.

I mean, sometimes you take all the steps to make sure little (whatever you're naming your kid) has no way to get his/her hands on the gun, but kids will surprise you and are much smarter than you think.

Also what if you were to accidentally shoot a member of your family while defending them from someone? I mean an unlikely scenario, but it could happen, especially with proposed shotgun.

Besides I just don't see the effectiveness of a gun. What I can see being more effective is some type of panic room. Sure they steal everything you own, but at least you keep your lives.

[manasecret]

So, Typh, you're saying rape and murder rates in home invasions for Vancouver are much lower than the U.S. I wonder what the actual stats are beyond your anecdotal evidence for Vancouver. That sounds pretty far-fetched to me.

I mean, I don't know of anyone that had their home invaded and were murdered or raped, but it doesn't mean the rate is any different than other places.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by manasecret

So, Typh, you're saying rape and murder rates in home invasions for Vancouver are much lower than the U.S. I wonder what the actual stats are beyond your anecdotal evidence for Vancouver. That sounds pretty far-fetched to me

in 2006 There were 45.3 violent offences involving guns for every 100,000 people in Metro Vancouver

And just for fun, the homocide rate in Canada is 1.85 per 100,000 (as of 2006)
As of 2006, the homocide rate for the US is 5.69 per 100,000.

However, in Vancouver the homocide rate is 2.01 per 100,000 people.

The rate of robbery incidents fell 4% in 2004. Police reported more than 27,000 robberies in Canada, half of which were committed without a weapon of any kind. The rate of robberies committed with a firearm continued to decline, down 3% in 2004, accounting for one in seven robberies. The remaining 35% of robberies were committed with other weapons such as knives.

About 41% of all robberies occurred in commercial establishments, including 16% in convenience stores or gas stations and 5% in banks. The next most common locations were streets/sidewalks (30%), private residences (8%) parking lots (6%) and open areas (5%).

So believe me when I say, around here it's relatively unlikely.

[Typhoid]

For comparison of Canadian crimes (All as of 2004, can't find a newer census):
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...50721a-eng.htm

622 homocides.
23,534 sexual assaults.
27,477 robberies.
17,294 thefts over $5000.
680,885 thefts under $5000.
18,002 counts of offensive weapons.
48,052 people caught posessing marijuana.

For fun though, let's do that as per 100,000 people:

2 homocides per 100,000 people.
860 B&E's per 100,000 people.
54 thefts over 5 grand per 100,000 people.
150 in posession of pot per 100,000 people.
304 drug related incidents per 100,000 people.

But remember, that is all of Canada - not Vancouver.

[manasecret]

So, ok, the violent crime rate appears to be less (though none of those stats directly address home invasion), but in any case it's not like it's nonexistent in Canada (and even more so in Vancouver). So it's not like the scenarios Prof. S are saying happen all the time in the U.S. but never happen in Vancouver.

For full disclosure, I lean towards not owning a gun for home protection. I think the chances of something going wrong with the gun and hurting someone are higher than the chances of your home being violently invaded. I just take issue with your statement that you can't fathom Prof. S's scenarios because you live in the utopia of Vancouver.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by manasecret

So, ok, the violent crime rate appears to be less (though none of those stats directly address home invasion)

What are you talking about?
It's lumped in with Robberies.
In Canada we don't get alot, so we have to combine stats.

Police reported more than 27,000 robberies in Canada, half of which were committed without a weapon of any kind. The rate of robberies committed with a firearm continued to decline, down 3% in 2004, accounting for one in seven robberies. The remaining 35% of robberies were committed with other weapons such as knives.

1 in 7 robberies in Canada, the person has a gun.

And since you want the direct stat:

The rate of break-ins fell 4% to just under 275,000 [In all of Canada] and was 36% lower than a decade ago. More than one-half (56%) of break-ins were committed in residences, about one-third (31%) in businesses and the remaining 13% occurred in other areas such as garden sheds and schools.

So let's just shoot the shit and say 125,000 break-ins in all of Canada in a given year in a residence, and if 1 and 7 of every break in has a gun, that means of those 125,000 residential break-ins, 17,857 of them were possibly armed with a gun and 107,143 of them had either no weapon at all, or a knife.

because you live in the utopia of Vancouver.

Mercer World Rankings 2009:
1. Vienna, Austria
2. Zurich, Switzerland
3. Geneva, Switzerland
4. Vancouver, Canada

Top 5 cities based on quality of living in the Americas:
1. Vancouver, Canada (4th in world)
2. Toronto, Canada (15th in world ranking)
3.Ottawa, Canada (16th world ranking)

Top 5 cities based on infrastructure in the Americas:
1. Vancouver, Canada (6th in world)
2. Atlanta, USA (15th in world)
3. Montreal, Canada (15th in world)

Just sayin'.

[Combine 017]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I'm well aware you don't live in Canada.
I do. Which is why I, and Dylan have a different view on these things.

I live in Canada too, im just down the street from you guys, but im fine with people owning guns. I plan to acquire one at some point in my life. Its just a lot harder to do in Canada.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Combine 017

I live in Canada too, im just down the street from you guys, but im fine with people owning guns. I plan to acquire one at some point in my life. Its just a lot harder to do in Canada.

Which of the following do you plan to acquire a gun for though, Adam:

A) As a conversation piece
B) Just to have one
C) For hunting purposes
D) Because you're afraid someone might rape and kill your family


Edit: For clarification, the reason me and Dylan are against owning guns that are not for hunting is the following:

As soon as people have guns in their homes for protection (or any other purposes, really) people will start bringing guns to breaking and entering scenarios. They won't bring a knife to a gun fight. Guns beget guns, and then the cycle never ends, as we can see with the way it is in the US.

[Combine 017]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Which of the following do you plan to acquire a gun for though, Adam:

A) As a conversation piece
B) Just to have one
C) For hunting purposes
D) Because you're afraid someone might rape and kill your family

A, B, and I guess D.
Not really into the murdering of innocent animals minding their own business.

Mainly to bring to a range and test out my mad skillz.
Around my place though id want a gun more so to protect my family from wild animals such as bears and cougars, not so much worried about someone breaking into my house.