Final Fantasy 13 Dated

[Typhoid]

I've never played - nor conciously know of - an RPG where you regenerate health after every encounter.

That's like in Fallout 3 if your AP and Health regenerate after each enemy. It's dumb. Even if battles are harder - it's still dumb. What made them hard before (to the point of this conversation) was health and MP management.


This is almost as bad of an idea as Tactics A2's MP starting at 0 each battle.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

Regenerating health after each battle usually means each individual battle is tougher and more exciting, as opposed to long series of tedious fights.

Well, the problem with that is... instead of a long serious of tedious fights... you get long tedious fights.

There is a very fine balance. If the fights become longer and more epic because your health regen after every battle, it will get boring, and make boss battles feel less so.

I think automatic health regen is a terrible idea, but we shall see when impressions start rolling in from the Japanese release.

[Szymon]

Here's some new screenshots for you guys. Looks like a beautiful game. HD <3

Come on you guys. You know the only difference this means is that you don't have to spend money on potions anymore, like Dylflon said, or that you don't need to Curaga the entire team afterwards, wasting precious mana. All this means is that you no long have to go through the game uncertain of how much mana you're allowed to spend on an encounter so as not to run out before you can rest or reach a boss. This doesn't mean we can go ape shit with our mana every encounter, because you can still run out before your enemies are defeated.

Also, how many times have you entered a random encounter and realized you forgot to heal before hand? Healing after battle for most people is automatic, so why not just remove it?

What this automatic healing process means is that we no longer have the requirement of carrying healing and mana potions or tents/cottages. It also removes the developers obligation to put in Inns and healing centers that might disrupt the flow of the game.

If you're worried about the loss of endurance style challenges and the satisfaction of being prepared for boss battles, then you need to realize that the endurance challenges will present themselves in rationing mana and maybe health potions too but during combat and not during your progress through the story.

I'm just as eager to see the reviews as everyone else bashing this new replenishment system because although I can sit here and speculate like the rest of us, I don't know for sure if this game will be good.

[BreakABone]

You know, maybe I'm seeing it differently.

Its not that one necessarily enjoys carrying around potions or reaching a Inn before dying of poison, its that it removes one of the few balancing aspects of the genre.

I mean what's to stop you from going balls to the walls in a battle because you know your health will regen as soon as you're done.

What you folks see as tedious and mundane... really is kind of the heart of RPGs... don't take that the wrong way, but as I stated before, where as most games challenge your reflex and timing, RPGs were usually more about careful management and long term thinking. You kind of lose both of that when the threat of death is so severely hampered by always getting full health.

[Szymon]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I mean what's to stop you from going balls to the walls in a battle because you know your health will regen as soon as you're done.

Nothing. Infact, I'm hoping that most encounters will encourage you to go balls to the walls.

My favourite final fantasy game was FF8, a game that required you to DRAW your magic from the enemy before you could use it. In early game, this means using the draw ability 100s of times in order to equip 3 characters with all the necessary magic. I found this system really fun, despite the extreme boredom that seems to sweep most other people I try to introduce this game to. I am familiar with tedium.

That being said, I too enjoy the planning and management involved in these games.

[BreakABone]

Here's a look at the battle system, and it just doesn't seem that compelling all on its own, but could just be me.

[Typhoid]

View it like playing a sports game - let's just say NHL 10.

Now, in previous years, players get injured, and are out for a few days/weels based on how they preformed in fights/hits etc.

Now, if you completely remove the fact that if a player gets injured he will be out in future games, that changes the dynamic of the "well-being" factor of your players/characters.

[Szymon]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Here's a look at the battle system, and it just doesn't seem that compelling all on its own, but could just be me.

For two people who enjoy the game, they certainly do make fun of the game a lot.

[DarkMaster]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

Here's a look at the battle system, and it just doesn't seem that compelling all on its own, but could just be me.

That demo is of a much earlier version of the battle system which the developers have said numerous times is not fully reflective of the actual game, so much so that if there were to be a demo for North America they wouldn't be able to release that same demo. Plus the entire purpose of releasing that demo a year before the game's release was to asses fan feedback.

But anyways, has anyone actual looked at the screens posted? http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=5921

Game looks beautiful. The first actual, fully realized RPG of the HD era, it's very exciting.

[DarkMaster]

Learned their lesson with the sphere grid? What lesson would that be, exactly? That it was fuckin awesome? I am blown away that they have created an evolution of the sphere grid system, I thought it was one of the best changes they ever made with the series when FFX came out. Leveling up is standard now, it's boring, every game has leveling up, it's become completely redundant. Thank god an RPG is trying to do something more with the concept.

You're awfully quick to judge a 40 hour game from a 5 minute video of a demo given to the press.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by DarkMaster

Learned their lesson with the sphere grid? What lesson would that be, exactly? That it was fuckin awesome? I am blown away that they have created an evolution of the sphere grid system, I thought it was one of the best changes they ever made with the series when FFX came out. Leveling up is standard now, it's boring, every game has leveling up, it's become completely redundant. Thank god an RPG is trying to do something more with the concept.

You're awfully quick to judge a 40 hour game from a 5 minute video of a demo given to the press.

Agreed.

I loved the sphere grid, though I wish they'd make another FF with FF7's ability system. I just like having a lot of freedom in how I develop my characters. I had Yuna learn a bunch of black mage abilities and she made Lulu seem useless. It was fun!

[BreakABone]

There's really no way this won't come off the wrong way to some, but eh.

I was just curious for the few multi-console owners here, which console are you picking up FF 13 for?

I mean if I do decide to get think will get the PS3 version simply because its only one disc compared to the 3 on the Xbox.

The second part is pretty negligible as well, but here are some comparison shots.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by DarkMaster

Learned their lesson with the sphere grid? What lesson would that be, exactly? That it was fuckin awesome? I am blown away that they have created an evolution of the sphere grid system, I thought it was one of the best changes they ever made with the series when FFX came out. Leveling up is standard now, it's boring, every game has leveling up, it's become completely redundant. Thank god an RPG is trying to do something more with the concept.

You're awfully quick to judge a 40 hour game from a 5 minute video of a demo given to the press.

Actually more going along the lines of what my friend Chase says. My friend who imported the PS3 version of the game, speaks fluent Japanese, and has been playing RPGs just as long as I have. The five minute video just helped me visualize his words.

The Sphere grid was a clusterfuck of stupid. Farming Lvl. 3 and Lvl. 4 keys... Yeah no thanks, I really don't need that extra 100 hp. The only thing saving face right now is apparently it has a decent story and likable characters. Final Fantasy Versus 13 is actually sounding much better as of right now.

Originally Posted by TheGame

Agreed.

I loved the sphere grid, though I wish they'd make another FF with FF7's ability system. I just like having a lot of freedom in how I develop my characters. I had Yuna learn a bunch of black mage abilities and she made Lulu seem useless. It was fun!

This...

There was no individuality in the characters when you could take them through everyone's sphere grid. Basically what makes a final fantasy game sweet was shattered as soon as you got Kimari over to Black spells, which btw didn't take long, and he entered the thing right next to ultima. Which btw is the fastest way to get Ultima for Lulu, just use a friend sphere and take her through the back door of her own part of the grid. However the same argument can be made about 7, 10 and 12. I just don't see the purpose of having all characters being able to do everything if you put enough time into it. I hated 10 with a fiery passion, and 12 wasn't any better.

This isn't just limited to the FF series, it's basically all RPGs these days. Just a useless bunch of shit packed into a story that's been done before, and a bunch of stock characters. :s Guess you can say that about pretty much anything nowadays though.

[TheGame]

There was no individuality in the characters when you could take them through everyone's sphere grid.

Sly Moogle, I couldn't disagree more lol.

I think being able to give your group whatever spells you want gives the game MORE individuality. It's not like the characters could learn each other's limit breaks (or whatever it was called in X).

I like having the freedom to make my team do whatever I want them to do. The only reason I like FF7's system more is because it had even MORE freedom. I could have had Cloud learn anything I wanted, and he could have been good at it if I took the time to do so. It made the game more replayable to try out different sets and different spell combinations.

I can't stand games where you "level" and just get the same spells every time without any customization to abilities.

[TheSlyMoogle]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Sly Moogle, I couldn't disagree more lol.

I think being able to give your group whatever spells you want gives the game MORE individuality. It's not like the characters could learn each other's limit breaks (or whatever it was called in X).

I like having the freedom to make my team do whatever I want them to do. The only reason I like FF7's system more is because it had even MORE freedom. I could have had Cloud learn anything I wanted, and he could have been good at it if I took the time to do so. It made the game more replayable to try out different sets and different spell combinations.

I can't stand games where you "level" and just get the same spells every time without any customization to abilities.

How does that make them more individual? "Oh hey I'm Yuna, I'm a black mage and a white mage." "Oh hey I'm LuLu, I'm a white mage and black mage too."

Oh so you're like the same character with different models?

Also, overdrives were what they were called. Each character had a different way to get them. Tidus had the easiest and most damaging Overdrive, and also the easiest "Ultra Overdrive" to get. Basically you attacked and you got overdrive meter.

Anyway what's the point in having a team of characters who cover their own weaknesses? Oh hey, we can all cure! Wakka, Auron and Tidus, just go out there and kill stuff because our mages aren't needed here. The only character who has a skill that's solely hers that is usable more than once every 20 battles or so, was Yuna in Summoning. And that was useful /sarcasm.

The worst part was it had a pretty cool battle system with the ability to switch characters out mid battle. They totally defeated that purpose though. What was the point in splitting the AP further, when you could power through the game with 3 characters? Plus I would still like to know whose idiotic design it was to start Kimari right by ultima so you could get it like a third into the game with a friend sphere as long as you didn't progress Kimari.

I'll agree that leveling up is a fairly old and worn out system, but in no way was sphere grid a good replacement. I'm sorry you don't like limits because they make things hard.


To talk about people who think RPGs are getting easier, here's where it started. "OH HI! I'M FFX! Not only is my story trash, my voice acting abysmal