Nintendo Revolution... More Like Retrolution

[Professor S]

Many good points made by all, I'll hit on a few since there was just so much good discussion going on here.

Stonecutter - Nintendo is stubborn, but I also think they have become arrogant. A commentator on G4 today actually made a good point (unbelieveable, right?). He said that Nintendo seems to think that what Japanese gamers want is what Western gamers want, when the style of games each prefer are very different.

Gekko - There is a big problem with Peripherals... they don't sell games, and developers don't like to be forced to devlop according to their specifications. Donkey Konga, while I've never played it, does seem like a fun game. The problem is, the congos are good for one type of game... a congo game. Thats not attractive to developers and in the end I think that type of specific innovation lends itself to an initial interest through the public, but it wanes as the "fad" passes. Yes, it is experimental and I applaud them for that, but I don't think it makes much business sense. I'm looking at this from the point of a former marketing professional as well as an avid gamer. If the games don't sell, there is no innovation because there is no business. Gaming companies, even Nintendo, are in the BUSINESS of video games. They are not the Medici family of gaming, and need to make games that will sell and gain mainstream attention if they want to compete in the next generation. They also need a marketing overhaul, but thats a post for another thread.

Xantar - Part of my problem with Nintendo is that we don't know very much about the Revolution, and that is a problem for them, at least in the West. You say I can't "bash" them when we don't know much about their system. I say I CAN "bash" them BECAUSE we don't know enough about their system. In fact, thats my biggest frustration with Nintendo, beyond their whoring of Mario and other beloved charaters. The DS may be doing well in Japan, but I don't live in Japan and neither do 90% of the gamers across the globe. I wish Nintendo would recognize this. As for me knowing what gamers want...

1) Nintendo was once the great powerhouse in gaming, right? They seemed nearly unbeatable, right? Well, something had to happened to send them to #3.

2) Former marketing pro, here (now a poor man in school to become a teaher). I know a little something about the subject.

3) Read the posts by other avid gamers in this thread. It wasn't so long ago that I would have been flamed to death for the most minor of criticisms over a Nintendo product. Now I get +repped for it and it starts a meaningful discussion. It appears gamers are starting to agree with my POV, or are at least willing to see the other side of things.

4) I did say that this was merely my opinion at the end of the post.

5) I am the all knowing and all powerful OZ, mother****er. You KNOW this and best RECOGNIZE. Word up.



Once again, all opinions expressed in this post are those of The Strangler, and not necessarily (but should be) the opinion of Gametavern or its staff members

[MuGen]

Strangler, I've a new found respect for your perspective on things. And although it may seem apparent that I'm not a Nintendo fan, I agree with your statements... Nintendo is looking into a future that consists of them in the back row....

On Another note... [[ I'm sick and tired of people complaining about where games have gone. From Fun and Entertainment to All About the Money? What the f*ck is that? SHUT UP.... Everything up to this point has been about the money.... They NEED the money to deliver those types of games to you. W/O MONEY they wouldn't be able to deliver anything..

There are developers who make games for the quick penny, but those games usually bomb.
There are developers who enjoy making the games.... BUT.... they will make the game really good and have a good story and good gameplay..... BECAUSE they think that approach will earn them more money.

Everything is about money.... you can't say gaming used to be just about fun and entertainment... ]]

[CamFu]

Great, another NINTENDO IS DOOMED!!11!! Thread

1) After Nintendo screwed up their launch of the Gamecube, and before everyone starts flaming me please remember that even they admitted they did, Nintendo said they would not allow themselves to be caught in the rear of the gaming bus again. Yet as we see at E3, they are once again behind both MS and Sony. So little to show for the Revolution when MS and Sony are showing so much.

Behind, how? You mean because they didn't show off what their "super computer" can do with graphics? What would they have shown? Metroid, Mario, Zelda... Pikimin. What ever they would have shown would have been Nintendo and people would have cried about that. Wanting their new IPs from Nintendo. The gaming community in general have this kind of personal vendetta against Nintendo. They want new IPs, but are pumped up for GTA4 and DMC4. Blows my mind.

You know who is making the CPU & GPU. Both are well respected companies in this industry. Does the Gaming World think that Nintendo is actually going to release a console with such horrible graphics that it won't be able to compete with Sony or Microsoft? They have always had graphics on their systems to "wow" about. The Rev is going to be no different. Did people really need to see that?

Crash and I were talking the other day, and he brought up a good point. Something that I didn't even think of. What if Nintendo just decided to let Sony and Microsoft battle out their little "pretty picture" war, then slam us with what the Rev can do... Both in Specs (including Graphics) and Controller. Not saying that would happen, but it's a tactic to keep in the back of the mind. Nintendo is always known for their surprises, good or bad. Always. Celda anybody?

2) Dance Dance Revolution... with MARIO. Is there any franchise that Nintendo won't pimp out their most beloved characters to? Mario is quickly becoming irrelevant in the gaming world due to Nintendo's abuse of the property. It will only be a matter of time before we see Metroid Chess and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Shuffleboard.

Mario is a whore, what can you do. He makes Nintendo a lot of money everytime he appears on something. So be it. Mario = $$$. I don't see how that is a bad thing.

3) The biggest stink over the Revolution that I've seen is the ability for it to download old Nintendo games from the history of the company, across all of its consoles: Ultimate Backwards Compatibility. Yeah, thats a great gimmick, but you don't go forward by looking to the past. I wish Nintendo would get over its gloried past, and realize that they are quickly on the way to becoming a distant third place gaming platform in the present. Oh yeah, and everyone loves how "sexy" the Revolution looks, like anyone ever bought a console because it matched their home decor.

What is up with this word? Man, everything Nintendo does is a "gimmick". DS, Bongo, Mic (w/Mario Party), GBC/GBA connectivity, etc... Yet when Sony comes out with these things, it's not a gimmick... it's AWESOME. Aka.. the EyeToy, PSP/PS3 connectivity, headset for SOCOM.

I know plenty of people that though the GC just looked stupid. Was it a reason they didn't buy it. Most likely. In America Your Image is EVERYTHING. LOL We are so vain.

Again, I will go back and say (not anybody here personally, unless the shoe fits), the Gaming Community has a personal vendetta against Nintendo. They have been in Business for over a 100 years. I'm sure the card business got pretty cut throat at time.

As for being in 3rd place... why don't you go down the list all the companies that have tried to enter this market and have failed. They will always be trying to gain more market, but some people are making this whole 1st, 2nd, 3rd race out to be a bigger deal then it really is.

[MuGen]

CamFu... I never realized how horrible of a fanboy you really are.... These are Strangler's opinions and his issues with Nintendo... it's supposed to spark discussion not you scorning his statements because you don't agree with him...

[Dyne]

Don't take it so harshly Kyuzo. Nobody's really getting scorned in this thread. Take the goggles off for a minute.

This is the best E3 topic we have right now.

[MuGen]

I'm not really taking it harshly...... This was my chance to jump on top of a fanboy like it's done to me.... and it's a good feeling..

[Professor S]

CamFu, the hardcore gaming public, at least I think, has always been in Nintendo's camp. Nintendo has the most hardcore audience, which used to include me. I have owned every Nintendo console, except for the SuperNintendo (that was during my all consuming "Genesis faze"). I rememebvr my hands getting blistered from playing a brand new copy of Mario Bros on the 8-bit and gleefully jerking my atari controller around with Donkey Kong on the old Atari. I love, or at least used to love, Nintendo.

But they need to face facts, and honestly so do you. This conspiracy theory of your doesn't hold much water and it smacks of someone trying to create answers when he doesn't like the questions that are being asked.

I'm getting a little too heavily involved in this discussion, so I'm going to retire for the night.

[CamFu]

You know whats funny, it just depends on what mood I'm in that day. He pointed out opinions, I disagreed with them. Nothing was meant personal, and if it was that's my bad. I never said his name... notice how I put Gaming Community or Gaming Public or whatever. Because these are not "new" arguements. They are just the same gripes you get from Boards all across the internet. But if I'm a fan boy... thats cool too. I've been called a whole lot worse.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Kyuzo

CamFu... I never realized how horrible of a fanboy you really are.... These are Strangler's opinions and his issues with Nintendo... it's supposed to spark discussion not you scorning his statements because you don't agree with him...

So wouldn't offering counterpoints and your own point of view be concerned discussion?

[CamFu]

But they need to face facts, and honestly so do you. This conspiracy theory of your doesn't hold much water and it smacks of someone trying to create answers when he doesn't like the questions that are being asked.

Ok, you lost me with this comment. Face what facts? I'm not in the industry, I don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I don't run a multimillion dollar business. I know that I wouldn't want that kind of responsibility right now (somebody when I have my millions I will). But there are really no facts out there other then Nintendo is making money. Be it from just their first party games and their GB Side of the house. That is why they are still in business. That is why they will still be here for years to come. Those are the facts.

And for the "conspiracy theory" that doesn't hold water? Are you talking about the tactic that I gave an example of? If you are, ok, you are getting into this discussion a little too much. I didn't use that as something that I would base anything off of. I just brought it up because I thought it was a good idea. Geez.

And if anything, personally I think it would be insane if Nintendo just ignored their past. It's something they can't ignore, it's what makes them who they are today.

How did this turn so ugly... so quickly?

[DarrenMcLeod]

J Allard and Reggie Fils-Aime are fanboys.

[Professor S]

CamFu, the conspiracy theory I was referring to was the "personal vendetta against Nintendo" when referring to people who criticize Nintendo's moves. My opinions are not personal, beyond my own frustration and disappointment with their current and seemingly future product.

As for the "facing facts " comment, I was using it in the context of common nomenclature, not really as a reference to legitimate facts. I was more saying that the observations I made were pretty obvious, IMO, and you seemed to prefer to believe that those that criticize Nintendo have a vendetta against them, instead of having legitimate gripes. But it is true, I should not have used the term "face facts" in my comment.

Now I'm REALLY retiring from this discussion for the night, as I'm quickly becoming too drunk to type. Damn you Vodka... vile spirit.

[CamFu]

Originally Posted by The Strangler

CamFu, the conspiracy theory I was referring to was the "personal vendetta against Nintendo" when referring to people who criticize Nintendo's moves. My opinions are not personal, beyond my own frustration and disappointment with their current and seemingly future product.

As for the "facing facts " comment, I was using it in the context of common nomenclature, not really as a reference to legitimate facts. I was more saying that the observations I made were pretty obvious, IMO, and you seemed to prefer to believe that those that criticize Nintendo have a vendetta against them, instead of having legitimate gripes. But it is true, I should not have used the term "face facts" in my comment.

Now I'm REALLY retiring from this discussion for the night, as I'm quickly becoming too drunk to type. Damn you Vodka... vile spirit.

See Gentlemen (and Ladies) this is why I hardly post. I get to much into. I have to get up for work in like 4 1/2 hours. Yet, here I am posting. Will I never learn?

The only reason I use the word "vendetta" is because I have met so many people in my life that have their "Playstation" and just disregard Nintendo/Sega/Atari/Microsoft like their nothing. Do I really care? No, not really. I'm not refering the gamers that remember the day they used to be made fun of because they play video games. I'm talking about the Gaming Community Today.

I can tell you stories that would bore your head off from people that just dislike Nintendo because the "know" it's for kiddies. Ok, just one quick story. You forced it out of me.

There I am, playing Madden 2005. Lovin' every minute of it. Playing it on my GC and using my Wavebird, so dude walks into my room and sees me playing Madden. Starts talking trash. I ignore him, but then he notices that there are no wires. He can't even see the "Playstation 2". I tell him that it's because it's a GameCube and the controller is wireless. He shuns it off, and tells me he is surprised that a Nintendo System can make sure good graphics. He actually thought Nintendo didn't make anything bud kiddie games. Does he want to try it, nope. Because it's Nintendo. If I had the PS2 set up, the dude would have sat right now.

That is where my opinion of the whole vendetta comes from.

[Xantar]

Well, what does it mean to be in third place?

Number of consoles sold? Ok, I suppose I can buy that, but how important is that?

Amount of money made? This being a business, is that what's really the most important? Well, Nintendo's not in third place there.

If there's anybody who has some hard facts to deal with, it's Microsoft. They're going to have a hard time making money any time soon. After posting a profit for one quarter not too long ago, they went back to losing even more money than usual. Sure, Microsoft has deep pockets, but they didn't get to be giants by losing money for decades in a venture. And truth to tell, I'm not so sure the Xbox 360 is going to pull Microsoft out of the rut either. It seems to have gotten rather overshadowed by the PS3, and in this generation, Microsoft isn't going to have the clearly most powerful console (note, I don't know which console is most powerful, but there's no clear winner which is really the point). Meantime, Sony can lower the price of the PS3 and force Microsoft down whenever they feel like it just like they did in this generation. So where's Microsoft going to make the money? Some day down the road a few generations from now? A lot of things change in that amount of time.

Nintendo is doing fine businesswise, meanwhile. Incidentally, the DS sold 2 million units as of April 20th and the PSP sold half a million as of March 31st. There's no more up to date data available, unfortunately. And yes it's true that the DS had a head start (although by the same token, so did the PS2). My point is simply that the DS isn't clearly getting creamed in the U.S. by the PSP either.

Now a word about FuFu's vendetta: I think his point was that even if Nintendo had showed a lot about the Revolution, people would have jumped on them for showing Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros. and so on. That's not all that Nintendo shows (in fact, they had a lot of stuff in this E3 that wasn't one of their big three franchises), but it's what people notice. So if they had shown the Revolution with all their franchise characters, many people (and I think you, too) would have criticized them for relying too much on their franchises and not looking forward enough. They would have looked at the Mario platformer and said, "Same old, same old. Get something new." And if Mario and Zelda had been nowhere in sight, other people would have complained about how Nintendo isn't giving the fans what they want. And since they didn't actually show much about the Revolution, people also complained. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

It's not a conspiracy. It's just that people are always looking out for things to criticize about Nintendo. And meantime, nobody complains about the fact that the PS3 is going to have Metal Gear Solid 4, Devil May Cry 4, Gran Turismo 5, and Tekken 6. Not that I think they necessarily should. But there seems to be a bit of a double standard going on here.

I really don't know that Nintendo could do anything to satisfy someone like you except perhaps become a clone of Sony. But they can't do that, nor do I think they should. Microsoft is trying to beat Sony at their own game, and all they've gotten out of it is a several billion dollar loss. Sure, now they've gotten their name out there. What's that worth in an industry that moves as fast as this one? I'm sure Nintendo has known for a long time that people like you wouldn't be happy with what they're doing, and I'm also sure that they've calculated that their bottom line will do just fine nonetheless. And I'm also sure that if they started trying to do everything that Sony is doing with multimedia functions and revealing information about everything and trying to outpower the competitors, it wouldn't gain them a thing. The industry just doesn't work that way.