poll

[Hero2]

make one thats priviate that way we cam compare results and see whos voting for god in front of others just to make themselfs look better(no im not being sarcastick or talking bad about you) it would be cool to compare results

[TheGame]

If it's what you belive, it's what you believe... If you are ashamed of what you think, well, that's your loss.

[Dylflon]

Bech. I'd rather go without explaining myself...but whatever.

I have a rather interesting view of things.

[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

I don't see what's so hard to imagine that there is something out there that just isn't perceptible to humans that is more powerful than us. The concept of infinity is known and understood in mathematics, but just can't exist in the case of a God?

Bad example, come up with something more reasonable and I may argue. Infinity is a word that defines a proven situation, God is a term used to describe a belief of the creation of life. Infinity = Proven, God = not.

Believe me when I say this though, while I may doubt the existance of God, I do believe it does exist slightly more than I believe it doesn't. The "concept" is EASY to understand. A child could understand that, as well as someone of even less intelligence.

[Rndm_Perfection]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

I have a rather interesting view of things.

Damn Elitist Narcissist

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by Rndm_Perfection

If a being cannot be created from "nothing", then there must obviously have been a being there to make it?



And what created that special something?

I don't see what's so different about God and infinity.
No beginning and no end, is attributed to both.
Do you need to know what created him to believe in him? Do you need to know when he was born, and his approximate lifespan?
A perfect example to me is like trying to measure the distance from east to west. It just never ends.

Numbers 3 and 4 seem to make the most sense to me.
Things just can't pop out of the air. They have to come from something. Like the old chicken and egg argument. Which came first? Why does it matter? How did it get there?


Maybe this doesn't make sense to you but it makes perfect sense to me.

[The Duggler]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

Numbers 3 and 4 seem to make the most sense to me.
Things just can't pop out of the air. They have to come from something. Like the old chicken and egg argument. Which came first? Why does it matter? How did it get there?


Maybe this doesn't make sense to you but it makes perfect sense to me.

Why can your god be infinite or have "popped out of the air" but the elements wich our universe is made of, can't?

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by Ranzid

Why can your god be infinite or have "popped out of the air" but the elements wich our universe is made of, can't?

Because we see when they end. The elements which our universe are finite because when can see how they start and know that they have an ending. If something has an ending, it has a beginning, right?

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by Rndm_Perfection

Infinity = Proven, God = not.

Depends on your definition of proof... if you take the bible and read it like it's a history book, then it is proven recorded history, if you don't then you can't prove anything that has happend before your life span and that you haven't seen with your own eyes.

Some people "know" God is real just like people "know" George Washington was the first president... Neither of us can prove either thing w/o looking to other people's accounts. Even then, how many people walking the earth today got to see George Washington with thier own eyes, and had a conversation with him?

In a way there is no proof except in books that others wrote.

What do you accept as proof?

Mathematics is the only thing certain in this world, as is our very existance, anything and everything else we believe you chose to believe. Even more so for things that aren't documented history in our own lives.

It all depends on the person. If you want to approach the bible as some ficticious book when you read it, you won't believe it... not because it isn't true, it's because you don't believe it. Same goes for any other religious book... or any book for that matter.

[The Duggler]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

Because we see when they end. The elements which our universe are finite because when can see how they start and know that they have an ending. If something has an ending, it has a beginning, right?

Right, but I fail to see how anything ends. Let's take the atom for exemple, you can shatter it, but it will only separate into smaller particules, it doesn't end.

No energy is created, nor lost in the universe.

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by TheGame

Depends on your definition of proof... if you take the bible and read it like it's a history book, then it is proven, if you don't then you can't prove anything that has happend before your life span and that you haven't seen with your own eyes.

Some people "know" God is real just like people "know" George Washington was the first president... Neither of us can prove either thing w/o looking to other people's accounts.

That's everything right there.

Originally Posted by Ranzid

Right but I fail to see how anything ends.

What I meant was existing forever. As in, people don't believe in God because he's supposed to have no beginning or end, and he's so powerful.
If you fail to see how anything ends, how do you explain how the people and animals that are dying everyday?

[The Duggler]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

What I meant was existing forever. As in, people don't believe in God because he's supposed to have no beginning or end, and he's so powerful.

no no no, you said that because the elements in our universe are "finite" that they couldn't have been there forever unlike god. And I replied saying that the elements are as infinite as your god is. So the godless theory is as good as yours in terms of infinity.

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

If you fail to see how anything ends, how do you explain how the people and animals that are dying everyday.

A change of state?

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by Ranzid

Why can your god be infinite or have "popped out of the air" but the elements wich our universe is made of, can't?

That's what I was responding to, and I obviously meant something different. I meant life. As in a being that is more powerful and has no beginning and end and is living.

No energy created or lost.
But, if you take the hydrogen atom and add a proton you get helium. Nothing lost, but it is changed. As in, it is not the same thing anymore.

A second thing is, we don't know what God looks like. I can never tell you what he is but I can tell you that he exists in some form. Who knows? He could very well be the universe itself. Who am I to say what he is? And that is most likely why many people don't believe. Because they want some concrete answer.
If you don't believe, you don't believe. Maybe somewhere down the road, you will maybe you won't.


He will only be perceived by those who seek Him with all their heart...

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

Because they want some concrete answer.

Exactly... everybody finds thier "concrete answer"s in different ways

As for the "No energy is created, nor lost in the universe" arguement... that's still not even a fact. Unless the scientist who made this discovery is god, and has been around as long as God, then you can't trust him. The fact is we haven't been everywhere, and we haven't been around for infintity years, so it's impossible to say that the energy we have now can't be destroyed, and it's impossible to say it can't be created, because it's impossible to prove.

Granted it can be proven in the short-term, but who is gonna sit there by an atom and see if it can handle the test of time... and if it was created someone could go back and see that it was, and prove it. (assuming some sort of time machine is created ) But nobody could prove that it was never created because you would be going so far back in time that... well, infintity steps in here. Infintity can't be proven, and for the most part things with a begining and an end can be.

Like I said in my earlier post, people believe what they chose to believe, and it's impossible to have an open mind here. I could sit here and say the sun will be here forever... and chances are unless it blacks out you will never be able to prove me wrong.

[The Duggler]

Originally Posted by mickydaniels

That's what I was responding to, and I obviously meant something different. I meant life. As in a being that is more powerful and has no beginning and end and is living.

Ok fine, this is where our arguments take seperates ways. Because you consider life as something beyond just elements and I don't. I believe that we are just product of a mix of the existing matter.

Originally Posted by TheGame

Ad for the "No energy is created, nor lost in the universe" arguement... that's still not even a fact. Unless the scientist who made this discovery is god, and has been around as long as God, then you can't trust him. The fact is we haven't been everywhere, and we haven't been around for infintity years, so it's impossible to say that the energy we have now can't be destroyed, and it's impossible to say it can't be created, because it's impossible to prove

Well, I like to base my beliefs in what we know and have discovered to this point. I know, we don't know everything, but that doesn't mean that we have to jump to conclusions to fast. That's why man started to believe in god in the first place, to explain the inexplicable.