GCN Successor takes place

[GameKinG]

Bits are so useless now. Like Stone said, it will all be tech talk for now and in the future.

[TheGame]

Xbox is 32-bit, GCN is 64 Bit, and Dreamcast/Ps2 are 128bit... this fact alone should show how useless "bits" are now

[Perfect Stu]

bits aren't useless. they aren't even close to being the deciding factor of how powerful the system is...but they're not useless.

[TheGame]

Well, Stu, get technical here... how are they important, what difference does it really make now in this 3d world?

(I'm not trying to argue, I just really don't know... )

I mean, would Xbox's preformance be any better if it had been 128bit? On the same note, why wouldn't MS just use this technology that's already out if it made any type of positive difference. I mean, right now the two most powerful consoles out there aren't even tru 128bit systems, yet two "less powerful" systems from the same gen are 128bit.

-EDIT-

Oh, and what I meant by useless was that's it's useless in comparing the raw power of consoles now.

[viruscool]

WHAT wasnt gamecube or xbox 128bit???????

[TheGame]

Originally posted by viruscool
WHAT wasnt gamecube or xbox 128bit???????

No... Xbox is 32, GCN is 64 like I said.

I used to have an explanation for it, like GCN runs on two 64-bit processors... and Xbox runs on four 32 bit processors (or somthing like that).

I'm not 100% sure, but that's why I think they label them as 128bit, alongside DC and Ps2 which run simply off of one 128 bit processor.

But once again, I'm FAR from sure on this Matter... the only thing I know for sure is Xbox is in fact 32 bit, and GCN is 64, and Ps2 is 128.

[Dyne]

Originally posted by TheGame
No... Xbox is 32, GCN is 64 like I said.

I used to have an explanation for it, like GCN runs on two 64-bit processors... and Xbox runs on four 32 bit processors (or somthing like that).

I'm not 100% sure, but that's why I think they label them as 128bit, alongside DC and Ps2 which run simply off of one 128 bit processor.

But once again, I'm FAR from sure on this Matter... the only thing I know for sure is Xbox is in fact 32 bit, and GCN is 64, and Ps2 is 128.

PS2 ran off four on the older models.. but then they found a way to merge them together. That's why the first price drop happened.

[Perfect Stu]

I dunno if you're trying to disagree with me or not, Justin

The bold print is there for a reason, but my point is valid. I won't get too technical (for various reasons ) but it's fact

[Shadow Fox]

Originally Posted by TheGame

No... Xbox is 32, GCN is 64 like I said.

I used to have an explanation for it, like GCN runs on two 64-bit processors... and Xbox runs on four 32 bit processors (or somthing like that).

I'm not 100% sure, but that's why I think they label them as 128bit, alongside DC and Ps2 which run simply off of one 128 bit processor.

But once again, I'm FAR from sure on this Matter... the only thing I know for sure is Xbox is in fact 32 bit, and GCN is 64, and Ps2 is 128.

OK, let me clear this up:

The DC, though very close, is only a 64-bit console by design (two 64-bit Hitachi CPUs, with a 128-bit PowerVR graphics engine. The Dreamcast has no dedicated GPU to handle graphics functions. Like the PS2, it is all handle in the MPU with Vector Processes.

The PS2 is the first true 128-bit console, and the price-point (prior to launch) definately proves that, and why the PS2 also has no dedicated GPU. The PS2 has one 297mhz CPU emulating two tasks- one as a main processor at half the clock speed (148.5 mhz), while the other is the "emotion engine" or graphics subset running at anywhere from 90mhz to the full 297mhz, of course at the cost of performance.

The emotion engine lacks onboard T&L (texture and lighting units), and does all effects in software, being a fixed graphics system. However, the PS2 is a VERY POWERFUL fixed-function unit, and the first ever with a HUGE 12-texel pipeline, capable of today's highest realword fillrate.

The GCN is a 64-bit system with a 256-bit graphics engine (codenamed "Flipper" by ArtX, later aquired by Ati). Rumors have it that Nintendo has indeed changed the PowerPC 750cxe chip (Gekko CPU) to a 64-bit SIMD instruction set, though the physical address is 32-bit according to most sources and docs.

Flipper LSI is a GPU, I/O Controller, Memory management system, Boot Rom location, L3 cache, Sound DSP, and expansion port all in one, operating at a synchonous 162mhz- 33% of Gekko's amended clock speed. Flipper is also fixed-function like PS2's graphics synth, and lacks hardware shaders provided in Nvidia's Xbox solution. However, GCN's ISA is VERY FLEXIBLE, and custom shaders have already been implemented in launch titles by Factor 5 and Nintendo, as well as newer technology in games like StarFox adventures, Mario Sunshine, and the upcoming Resident Evil 4. Low-level code for things such as DOT3 environment bumpmapping is now possible on GCN thanks to forward-thinking, and making the GCN very easy to program for via Open GL and DX toolsets. This is the first time (and probably the last) that a fixed-function GPU is capable of programmable functions without using a CPU to deliver the instructions.

The Xbox is a 32-bit system with a 256-bit graphics engine, codenamed "NV2A". The 733mhz CISC CPU has been given some extra gaming instructions, as well as native portions of the Win2k kernel the OS uses as a dashboard. In comparsion, the GCN RISC processor, depending on application, is generally as fast or faster than a 700mhz PIII CPU, so Xbox and GCN are typically the same CPU-wise.

In the graphics department, the GPU has a myriad of onboard effects with a programmable GPU API. This allows things such as bumpmapping, multitexturing, custom lighting, and other effects at no cost to performance (that GCN technically cannot do without a hit on performance, until the ISA was actually revealed for Flipper, proving otherwise). The Xbox is capable of roughly the same as GCN, since Xbox with raw power can almost compensate for performance hits for texture layers/hardware lights above 4 per pass, while GCN does 8 textures and 8 lights at no cost.

To recap:

DC is a 64-bit system with 128-bit graphics engine (fixed)
PS2 is a 128-bit system with a 128-bit graphics engine (fixed)
GCN is a 64 (or 32)-bit system with a 256-bit dedicated GPU (fixed)
Xbox is a 32-bit system with a 256-bit dedicated GPU (programmable)

It's not that difficult to see where the "bit" thing is going- it's quite obvious that "bit" is exponentially increasing in the GPU scale (see Parhelia 512 GPU, and newer Ati/NV cards due by 2004). Newer consoles will have either 256-bit, or 512-bit GPU's, with varying CPU types and clock speeds.

PS3 though, just may again be without a GPU, since Sony once again harps on vector units as a mainstay in many recent articles regarding Cell technology.

If you want more info on all of this techno jargon, feel free to PM me.

-Official Ninja of [coming soon]...

[Jason1]

Thank you Shdow Fox, that really cleared some things up.

[Cyrax9]

Hmm...

Here's a quick-thought, IGN has an insider article I can't read becuase, well I'm not an insider sadly enough ( I gotta have some ca$h too ya know!) and they were talking about "Possibilities" of a GCN SP, sort of a souped-up GCN, I guess something like the PSx from SOny, if that's the Case, than I'd say NIntendo is tryign to get this ting ready early so it can launch when the PS3 does, if not sooner, I just hope they don't try Srping 2005 or fall 2004 unless SOny succees with an earlyd ate, I honestly think the way the cnsoles are going to come ut of the gates will be Xbox 2 (C'mon these guys churn out a new PC OS every year this is all they knwo how to do, make a "Sequal" of sorts), followed by the GCN 2, and finally ther PS3 which will actually be hurt fro SOny's PSX getting a release when ti does, SOny seems to be making the same mistake Sega and even to an extent, Nintendo did on thier third console, I all it the "Thrd Console Curse" it's when you get Cocky and push the envelope too far and LOSE sales, if this happenes, Nintendo will have to take advantage of it, because when the votes are tallied adn the decision is final, the end result if executed correctly should be GCN 2, XBX2, PS3, as for now, I'd say it's going to go PS2, GCN, XBX unless Microsoft pulls something really good off aside form Online play, because in all honest, I don't like anything on XBX except halo which is coming to the PC/Mac where it should have been already, and yes, I will ahve the MAC version and possibly a Linux version should one be relased.