It has Begun

[Almansurah]

No-one supports Saddam [Muslims].

But we dont want our lands to be invaded for motives which are well known, such as oil, helping Israel...and so on.

There are many things one can say.

Who wants 'liberation' with the price of bombs?

[Professor S]

Hey! Look who's back! And making as little sense as ever!

So far I don't see how you can look at what the US is doing in Iraq and be critical at any level. They are taking every step to protect the Iraqi people and has even put Allied lives in jeopardy to do so when in any other case they would have bombed them for 5 days before advancing.

Iraq's own military are surrendering left and right. You would think they never wanted to fight in the first place... THEY DIDN'T!

You're problem with this operation is that a Western nation is liberating a Muslim nation. You have said in previous posts that out arrogance and aggression would cause millions to die. It hasn't. The Iraqi people and military WANT to be liberated and are cooperating. Saddam Hussein is a brutal terror, and I feel sorry for you that you are against the liberation of your own people because its coming at the hands of Christians.

I al;so have to feel that France, Germany and Russia are feeling REALLY dumb right now...

[ZeroCool51]

Saddam declared Jihad on America so we should declare a Crusade on him. A holy war for a holy war.

[BlueFire]

Originally posted by Duffman
Iraq declared Jihad on America so we should declare a Crusade on him. A holy war for a holy war.

Um... no.

[Professor S]

Originally posted by Duffman
Iraq declared Jihad on America so we should declare a Crusade on him. A holy war for a holy war.

While I appreciate your zeal, I think we have to be very careful about painting ourselves into a religious corner. This operation is about Saddam Hussein, not Islam. The US so far has done an excellent job of keeping this oissue about Saddam Hussein and carefully avoiding as many casualties on both sides as possible.

Remember, we can't be there forever even after a new government is set up, so the impression that we leave will have to act as our representative.

1) Liberate Iraq
2) Immediately identify secular leaders in post Iraq
3) Launch PR campaign complete with pictures of happy Iraqi's with US troops and video of them dancing in the streets.
4) Bring Secular leaders together to draft a document that will act as the rule of law, including a checks and balances system similar to the US (this keeps the winners of the next election from becoming the next Baath party)
5) Form a PARLIAMENT. Reason? Middle Eastern people have traditionally been associated with clans and sects. A 2 parey system would not work for a long time in the Middle East IMO. A Parliamentary system includes may parties that could accurately represent all clans and sects. This way all differing view points are represented.

In order for a democracy to work in any nation, the people must support it. The problem is that the Middle East has never seen a true democracy before, so they have no reason to believe it would work. Make democracy attractive and then the people will do the rest for you.

[ZeroCool51]

When i wrote it i meant to put Saddam not iraq. We should just declare a holy war against him.

[Professor S]

Once again, other Islamics and Muslims would make no separation of declaring a holy war against Saddam or the entire Islamic world. The Middle East is already every wary of Western influence in their countries. To many we are "Infidels" and our very culture is an attaack on their way of life, as it is attractive to Muslims and Islamics who live in poverty.

We must keep religion out of this all together.

[ZeroCool51]

It was meant more as a joke. I did'nt really think people would take it that serious. I know that we can't invole religion because people will fight and die for there beliefs. Declareing a crusade would be one of the worst things we could do, that was not really my opinion it was just meant as a joke. I apologize for any misunderstandings.

[ZeroCool51]

From what i've heard on Cnn and Msnbc is that around 250 of iraqs troops have turned themselves over to the US and that more were on the way.

[ZeroCool51]

We just bombed bagdad at 9:30 kuwait time. Reports say we fired 300+ cruise missles. Saddams palace was destroyed.

[Mechadragon]

It would be difficult to have a crusade when the Pope doesn't even want us there.

[Bond]

[sarcasm]

My, my, my look at that.

Iraq has already fired several scud missiles, which according to them they didn't have. Luckily all of them have been shot down by our much improved patriot missiles. Those inspections sure did work, didn't they France?

Iraq also just recently violated the Geneva Convention by shooting one of our POWs through the head. Upon other violations. This is a great regime, isn't it?

And of course Al Jazeera only reports the Iraqi propaganda and never any of the Allied victories. They aren't biased and/or influenced at all, now are they?

[/sarcasm]

[Joeiss]

Originally posted by Bond
[sarcasm]
Iraq also just recently violated the Geneva Convention by shooting one of our POWs through the head. Upon other violations. This is a great regime, isn't it?
[/sarcasm]

Umm.... Is that what they actaully did?

[gekko]

Originally posted by Mechadragon
It would be difficult to have a crusade when the Pope doesn't even want us there.

The pope was against WWII as well, and Operation Enduring Freedom, and every other war that they didn't start.

[Bond]

Originally posted by Joeiss
Umm.... Is that what they actaully did?

Yes. At least there has been no intelligence contradicting that statement. The video that Al Jazeera aired also violates more rules of the Geneva Convention. That's interrogations and public exposure if you were wondering.

At least the media is exposing this. Many innocent civilians in Iraq are brutally murdered and/or tortured each day in front of their relatives by Saddam's government. Of course you never hear that.