Religions

[KillerGremlin]

I release my thetans all the time.

[Dylflon]

I want to be religious because of how terrified of dying I am but I can't because I'd know I was being a phony.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

I want to be religious because of how terrified of dying I am but I can't because I'd know I was being a phony.

Not for argument's sake, but for conversation's sake;


You'd "know" you were being a phony?
How is that any less closed-minded than "There's definitely a God, Science is wrong".
You're not even leaving yourself any room for spiritual growth.

[Teuthida]

Isn't a lot more comforting to know you simply won't exist after you die rather than have some sort of essence of yourself (What parts exactly? What will be your form? What you looked like when you died?) transported to some other realm of who knows what ruled by some higher being? Believing in an afterlife is far scarier of a concept for me than simply being worm food.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Teuthida

Isn't a lot more comforting to know you simply won't exist after you die rather than have some sort of essence of yourself (What parts exactly? What will be your form? What you looked like when you died?) transported to some other realm of who knows what ruled by some higher being? Believing in an afterlife is far scarier of a concept for me than simply being worm food.

As Calvin (Of the Calvin & Hobbes') said "Dying sounds like an awfully big adventure."


Personally, I don't find much solace in the fact that once I die, time might as well have never existed in the first place.


Occasionally I try to find a way to mesh science and religion together. Science is built on what if, after all. And there's no bigger "what if" than "What if a God (or what we would perceive to be a God) actually does exist?"

I recently watched Horton Hears a Who (Because I can), and it made me think about this. Follow me, here.

The Who's of whoville cannot see Horton the elephant. They cannot understand the fact that there is more than there world out there. They cannot comprehend what it would look like, or even begin to fathom the size of everything that exists outisde their little spec on that flower, let alone the size of the elephant; gigantic to them, but infinitely tiny within his own Universe. Even if they were to SEE Horton the Elephant, he would be much too large to even be recognized as a thing.


If we were to stare directly into the face of God, would we even know it?

[Teuthida]

I think you'll like this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php...&id=2431#comic

The Who's of whoville cannot see Horton the elephant. They cannot understand the fact that there is more than there world out there. They cannot comprehend what it would look like, or even begin to fathom the size of everything that exists outisde their little spec on that flower, let alone the size of the elephant; gigantic to them, but infinitely tiny within his own Universe. Even if they were to SEE Horton the Elephant, he would be much too large to even be recognized as a thing.


If we were to stare directly into the face of God, would we even know it?

I'm iffy on the god thing for that reason. If some god did exist, it would surely be incomprehensible to us.

But for there to be an afterlife you would have to assume humans are special compared to all other lifeforms other than our intelligence. (Which I know religious folks have no problem believing but you need to do mental gymnastics to make things work out otherwise.)

Imagine how many insects are always dying. Heaven would be almost entirely beetles. Or do they go to hell? Or does each little beetle soul get reincarnated?

What about one-celled organisms? If one of those die, nothing happens? The human body is made up of trillions of them which are dying as well at different rates. So the distinction is an independent organism then? (Except no creature exists in a vacuum.) Or is size the determining factor? In the grand scheme of things we are itty bitty teeny weeny specks.

Basically you would need to subscribe to the notion that only humans (a very new species) possess a soul (which there is no proof of) for any of this work out (or keep some semblance of yourself in this afterlife). But your memories are all housed in your physical brain...

As far as I'm concerned there can only be an afterlife (how one thinks of one at least where you are still you) by not thinking about how it would actually work.

So much simpler and elegant to think of ourselves as just mass. When we die our form just changes.

I would suggest watching The Invention of Lying. Not the greatest movie and probably offensive if really religious but there are some good ideas, especially about the creation of the afterlife idea.

[KillerGremlin]

I'm not so worried about being dead, I'm more concerned with the transition.

Cell death in your brain sounds terrifying.

What happens to your brain after you die?
Messenger RNA circulates for hours, but what proportion of your neurons/glial cells remain functional? Is there support for a common post-mortem experience?

If the blood supply to the brain is interrupted (ie heart stops), within six seconds the person will be unconscious. This is because neurons cannot store their own oxygen and glucose (energy supply) and must constantly draw it from the blood. WIthout this supply, the neurons will shut down and stop firing electrically and chemically, hence the unconsciousness. If the oxygen and glucose supply is cut off for longer, revival may be possible but there will be permanent brain damage. If blood supply is not restored within six minutes, there is severe permanent damage.

There are some arguments for or against decapitation because the subject may remain alive momentarily.

The concept of a stroke (how my grandfather and his dad went) terrifies me. Or a heart attack. Just the transition is freaky, not so much being dead. If there is nothing after I die, I won't give a shit, will I?

I also have a weird fear of cremation and being buried. I guess that's irrational.


As far as science meshing with religion....I like the idea that the Universe is a constant and that it has "always been." Maybe life is cyclical and we will all do it again. But then I look back and think..."Do I really want to not be able to drink and/or drive again? Fuck no!?"

So then maybe there is reincarnation. That could be fun. If I come back as a female I'm definitely going les.

Or maybe everything is just a string of conscience and once you die you just become an infinite stretch of energy. Maybe time slows down.

Or maybe if you were a good person you get to go hang out with J-C for all eternity. I hope all the cool people are there...like George Carlin and Bernie Mac.

If there is a purgatory, I'd like to think we are in it right now. If I come back as a ghost, the first place I'm going is the lady's locker room. Hide your wife and kids. That isn't ectoplasm.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by Teuthida

If some god did exist, it would surely be comprehensible to us.

I'm curious as to why you have that view? I've had a lot of conversations on religion before, but I don't think I've ever heard that point.

[Teuthida]

Oops damn. Typo. Incomprehensible. I'll go fix that.

[Angrist]

Do any of you follow the news on physics lately? Basically they thought they had figured it out... but now they discovered they haven't. The speed of the expanding galaxy isn't decreasing (as gravity would dictate and which is the basis for the bing bang theory), but it's increasing.
Scientists also can't figure out the behavior of gravity outside our solar system. They can't find enough mass to explain the movement of stars etc. So for years they've had this theory of dark matter, which can't be seen but still exerts gravity. But because apparently that isn't enough, some scientists propose that energy can also exert gravity. And when that isn't enough, there has to be 'dark energy'.....
And then finally there's the recent discovery (presumption) that neutrinos are faster than light.


I'm not saying that stuff like that is a prove there is a God, because that would be a fallacy. I'm just saying that whatever science uses to disprove a God, I'm not buying it. People think they're so clever, while in fact they only understand a small part of the universe.
Oh and I wonder who are worse: scientists who think they're clever, or all the people who just believe them without looking at the facts/reasonings themselves.

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by Angrist

I'm not saying that stuff like that is a prove there is a God, because that would be a fallacy. I'm just saying that whatever science uses to disprove a God, I'm not buying it. People think they're so clever, while in fact they only understand a small part of the universe.
Oh and I wonder who are worse: scientists who think they're clever, or all the people who just believe them without looking at the facts/reasonings themselves.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

When did scientists try to prove or disprove God?

Physics is an exploratory science that examines our natural environment. It is based on theories which are compositions of ideas that stand up to repeat testing and empirical evidence (i.e. the scientific process). As you stated in your post, many of the theories are being adapted and changed to fit new information. That's the whole point of science and why science is awesome.

Science doesn't prove or disprove God. It never has been intended to do such.

On the other hand.....

[KillerGremlin]

Also, we've known for a long, long time that:

1) The universe is expanding

2) We are accelerating away from everything else

This video is absolutely important and worth your time:




Dark Energy seems to be very real...although I'm not qualified to really defend it so I'll post another video.



And from what I can tell, the jury is still out on the neutrinos that are faster than light. And even if neutrinos do faster than light and we need to make changes in our theories, that is a good thing! I certainly hope we don't know everything. Humans are relatively young, and we have so much to learn. That's why science is great.

But the best part? You can still have a passion for learning and exploration and you can still have religion and God. The existence of God has no baring on environmental observations. You can observe that it is hot or cold outside, and you can attribute that to God or you cannot. Either way, you can observe that it is hot or cold outside.

[Combine 017]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

Also, we've known for a long, long time that:

1) The universe is expanding

2) We are accelerating away from everything else

I thought there were some theories now that the universe is contracting?

And I didnt watch your hour long videos because I cant sit still that long, but ive been watching a newish series called "Into the universe with Stephen Hawking" and it goes over stuff like the expanding universe and dark energy and neutrinos and being able to time travel using a black hole.

[Dylflon]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

Not for argument's sake, but for conversation's sake;


You'd "know" you were being a phony?
How is that any less closed-minded than "There's definitely a God, Science is wrong".
You're not even leaving yourself any room for spiritual growth.

I'd know I was being a phony because I'd be being religious when I'm not sure in my heart if I believe in god or not.

[Angrist]

Maybe it's interesting to note that the Bible doesn't speak of faith as something you merely hope... It's more than that, it's based on good arguments, on a good study of the Bible etc.

So if you wonder if there's something out there, just give it a more thorough look.