Nintendo at E3 2011

[Angrist]

Do you really think that?

Nintendo is building the whole console around this concept, and that's why it will work.
Sure, MS/Sony could launch some feature that lets you use a tablet. But it will just be another feature that nobody will use. Like the SIXAXIS. Or the Move. Like the AGB/GCN connectivity. If they're very lucky, in 4 years they'll have something that is as succesful as Kinect.

In fact, with the presentation of the PS3 (E3 2006?) Sony already showed you can use the PSP as a second screen for your PS3. Remember they used it as a rear mirror for some racing game? So the idea of a second, portable screen is quite old. Guess what, nobody used it. People have forgotten about it. Not because the idea wasn't good, but because it was poorly executed.

Now Nintendo has this great plan, has gotten developers on board and everybody is full of ideas. There's no way MS/Sony will catch up with them within 3 years. And when they do, it will just be another expansion... And the only expansion we've ever seen work is Kinect, and even that is very controversial.

I personally think that the graphical leap between this and the next gen will be smaller, or at least not so important. Yes, even if Wii U isn't (much) stronger than the PS360 (and we don't know that yet), the PS4/3602 will outclass it. But do you really think that's going to stop Nintendo and 3rd parties from making a load of awesome games?

We can bet it won't be as bad as Wii.

[KillerGremlin]

I do think it is odd that Nintendo is releasing a "catch-up" console at a sort of weird time so they can finally have HD graphics and the processing power to port/share 360 and PS3 games. It makes you wonder when Sony and Microsoft will unveil their next big things, and how much ahead they will be when they do.

We are going to need to see official specs....also, this new console hangs 100% on the success of online gaming. And, an added consideration is the fact that you will likely only be able to sync one of these tablets up to your Wii-U due to processing power limitations.

I still like the tech and think it has big potential, so I look forward to hearing news and the progression of this thing.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

While I sort of like the idea of the whole....ipad-controller-thing, I think it says a lot when their stock immediately dropped to a 5 year low or something hilarious like that.

I would point out that, a 5 year low would mean the last time it was this low was after the reveal of the Wii, and we saw how that worked out.

And I believe historically, it has fallen after the reveal of the DS as well.

Anyways, I think this will be what ruins Nintendo. To oversimplify it, it's sort of just a tablet you use in conjunction with your 'Wii'.

And I'm pretty sure Sony/Microsoft have tablets (If they don't, they should?), so it wouldn't be hard, or needlessly expensive for them to easily phase Nintendo out on this, aswell - just like they slowly tried to do with motion-gaming.

It seems like Nintendo is struggling for fringe ideas to sell consoles, but is sort of totally backing themselves into a corner as they do it. Since the other systems are making super-powerful systems, and simply biting off the gimmicks Nintendo brings, they'll no doubt continue to do this until even a new Nintendo system is immediately obsolete and a generation behind.

I've seen it described on a podcast as the "console without an audience."
And I can kind of see that belief.
On paper, it isn't as simple and inviting as the Wii-mote was.
And it isn't a simple revision on the standard idea of a console for the "hardcore"
So its a console that tries to appease all, but really doesn't appeal to anyone in its current form.

I think as we get closer to launch and see key software and stuff, it will be easier to tell.
I mean even with the simplicity of the Wii controllers, if not for Wii Sports it would have never taken off the way that it did.
All they need is a solid software idea behind them.

And to answer your question, I'm fairly certain that neither MS nor Sony are in the tablet business ATM. Though Sony has comparable tech when you combine the PS3/PS Vita usage.

[Bond]

The 52WK range for Nintendo's stock (trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange) is: 15,790 - 29,300 (in yens, of course). Current price of the stock is 16,390. So, in roughly a little over twelve months the stock has dropped by half.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=TYO:7974

Hard to say if that drop is directly or indirectly attributable to much of anything, but it is quite a drop.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Bond

The 52WK range for Nintendo's stock (trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange) is: 15,790 - 29,300 (in yens, of course). Current price of the stock is 16,390. So, in roughly a little over twelve months the stock has dropped by half.

http://www.google.com/finance?q=TYO:7974

Hard to say if that drop is directly or indirectly attributable to much of anything, but it is quite a drop.

There are a ton of simple factors really
-The Wii has been in a steep decline for a while now. Sales are generally buoyed by the holidays and the occasional major release.
-The 3DS has had a less than spectacular launch reception. Selling under anticipation for the first 2-3 months.
-No major software released this year on either of their major consoles. Though they had Pokemon Black/White

[Typhoid]

Now Nintendo has this great plan, has gotten developers on board and everybody is full of ideas. There's no way MS/Sony will catch up with them within 3 years.

Really?
You don't think MS or Sony can make their new system (or port to a PS3/360, I suppose) compatable with a tablet - which everyone is all the rage about these days - meaning a lot of companies are probably already looking into ways to utilize a tablet in the best way for them - and you don't think they can do that in 3 years?


And this isn't like motion sensing, really. Because I'm sure a lot of the reason behind MS and Sony not doing it sooner is because they wanted to see how much demand their was for what types of motion games to even see if it's worth it.

With this tablet/system meshing thing, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. In fact I think it's a really cool idea if utilized properly. Seems really futuristic to me. All I was saying is that it is becoming easier and easier for Sony and Nintendo to slowly push Nintendo out of the majority of the market by taking their ideas, and utilizing them with their systems' power.

And in fact, both Sony and Microsoft already have tablets either in the market, or currently in development - and I'm pretty sure that (if demand is high enough) they could easily port to their current systems respectively, or include it (as they could with motion sensing) in their next console.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

There are a ton of simple factors really
-The Wii has been in a steep decline for a while now. Sales are generally buoyed by the holidays and the occasional major release.
-The 3DS has had a less than spectacular launch reception. Selling under anticipation for the first 2-3 months.
-No major software released this year on either of their major consoles. Though they had Pokemon Black/White

Perhaps, but all of those tidbits could have already been factored into the stock price at that point in time ... it's a little more complicated.

[Angrist]

So apparently developers are saying the Wii U is 50% stronger than PS360.

Your thoughts?

[Bube]

Haven't really followed the Wii U stuff as it didn't get me that excited. Here are a few of my opinions.

Nintendo are still aiming for the casual, or to be more precise, the casual-hardcore market. The under-16 age group, the group that wants to play the serious games they're older brothers are playing, but still also have a part of them that are wowed by gimmicks; and the over 50 group, who look for that pick-up-and-play factor.

If you're a serious gamer, then you're looking for pure gaming. Not "let me press this button on my touchscreen and hide my character behind the bushes" or "another waggle of the controller will win me the game!".

I believe the correct way would've been what Sony is doing. Make the gimmick optional. Don't build everything around it.

And the fact that this mid-gen console is a next-gen release is another problem.

In a few years, we'll be seeing ports of last-wave PS3 and Xbox 360 (or "optimized" PS4 and Xbox 720) games, with "waggle-quality" tablet features. This is the optimistic option.

The pessimistic option will be what the Gamecube turned into.

BTW, correct me if I'm wrong but, hasn't Nintendo been saying that they have "strong 3rd party support" in every new console announcement since the N64 lost it's 3rd party support?

[manasecret]

Please... PS3 and X360 are for casual, wannabe gamers. True hardcore gamers who are "serious" and "looking for pure gaming" play on the PC.

/sarcasm

The casual vs. hardcore gamers is endlessly brought out by elitist gamers as if it's a good argument.

[gekko]

Originally Posted by Angrist

So apparently developers are saying the Wii U is 50% stronger than PS360.

Which developers? I haven't seen this news.

Originally Posted by Bube

BTW, correct me if I'm wrong but, hasn't Nintendo been saying that they have "strong 3rd party support" in every new console announcement since the N64 lost it's 3rd party support?

Yes they have. People also tend to forget that while Gamecube had many 3rd party titles, many of those games were simply better on other platforms. PS3 had memory cards big enough to hold your Madden save, Xbox had a hard drive, better online, and the best graphics. It's the same thing with the Wii, are you really happy getting a COD4 port when everyone else is getting the sequel? Xbox owners are getting all COD DLC first, and they are playing on Live. The Wii may have it on paper, but you're using friend codes. Is that still considered "strong" 3rd party support?

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by gekko

Which developers? I haven't seen this news.



Yes they have. People also tend to forget that while Gamecube had many 3rd party titles, many of those games were simply better on other platforms. PS3 had memory cards big enough to hold your Madden save, Xbox had a hard drive, better online, and the best graphics. It's the same thing with the Wii, are you really happy getting a COD4 port when everyone else is getting the sequel? Xbox owners are getting all COD DLC first, and they are playing on Live. The Wii may have it on paper, but you're using friend codes. Is that still considered "strong" 3rd party support?

I think the difference between the Wii and Wii U (can't speak of the Cube yet since we don't know the PS4/Xbox 3 stance) is that Nintendo is showing it up front.

Granted, all we got so far are a handful of ports, but they are getting titles that have never graced a Nintendo console like Tekken, Assassin's Creed, they are getting an enhanced version of Ninja Gaiden 3.

Then there is the middleware, we already know that the console will be supported by Unreal Engine 3, Crytek CryEngine 3, whatever Ubisoft calls their Assassin's Creed engine, and all signs point to it being supported by the Frostbite 3 engine.

So even when the PS4/xbox 3 comes out, developers will have the tools in place to continue supporting it even if just with down ports.

[Bube]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Please... PS3 and X360 are for casual, wannabe gamers. True hardcore gamers who are "serious" and "looking for pure gaming" play on the PC.

/sarcasm

The casual vs. hardcore gamers is endlessly brought out by elitist gamers as if it's a good argument.

To be honest, when I say casual and hardcore, I really mean the people who played games in the N64/PSX era, or started playing after that. The Gamecube kinda split the community when it got labeled as "kiddy", and I think gave birth to the gamer we now call "casual". Then with the Wii, gaming became a pastime for (almost) everybody who could hold a remote, and thus the profile of games changed.

Nintendo are trying to introduce it's Wii playing population to the other side of gaming, and trying to win them over with what got them hooked on the Wii in the first place - a gimmick.

[thatmariolover]

Originally Posted by gekko

Which developers? I haven't seen this news.



Yes they have. People also tend to forget that while Gamecube had many 3rd party titles, many of those games were simply better on other platforms. PS3 had memory cards big enough to hold your Madden save, Xbox had a hard drive, better online, and the best graphics. It's the same thing with the Wii, are you really happy getting a COD4 port when everyone else is getting the sequel? Xbox owners are getting all COD DLC first, and they are playing on Live. The Wii may have it on paper, but you're using friend codes. Is that still considered "strong" 3rd party support?

Well, historically I would agree. With each passing generation Nintendo has crippled the system in some fashion that makes 3rd party devs jump ship. With the N64 it was expensive cartridges and complex programming requirements. With the Gamecube it was 1.5 GB discs, lack of storage, Friend codes, and a purple case. The Wii didn't go HD and never had a high quality, dedicated core controller.

I can't say it will be different this time. But the bottom line is that Nintendo has addressed most of the key problem areas. Friend Codes are going away for a new Online service more in line with Live. The graphics are HD, though we have yet to see specs. Supposedly it's heavy on the RAM, which is something devs will love.

My biggest concern at this point is the lack of a core dedicated controller. I'm looking for something wireless, in between the Gamecube and classic controller.

[Angrist]

Why would you want another controller? You're afraid the U Pad will be too heavy or something?