Bin Laden Dead

Swan · 05-02-2011, 11:25 PM

Ok, just to get this straight I am in no way a fan of ANYTHING Osama did.

But does anybody find it a little strange to turn on the news and see crowds of people cheering over the death of a person?

I understand how he was the most hated person of the past decade and all that, but it still blows my mind to see thousands of people chanting because somebody died.

Vampyr · 05-03-2011, 12:05 AM

I definitely find it weird, and I've been torn between happiness and pure macabre-ness of it all. It feels very unnatural to celebrate the death of anything.

But I just think back to 9/11. The fear and terror all those people must have felt moments before they died, and what their families had to endure afterwords...and I just can't bring myself to feel anything but happiness that he was killed.

I think it's a dichotomy of human nature - we want vengeance but death is an unnatural thing to be happy about. In the end I guess it comes out to how human you really think he was. I think the people who completely reject the idea that someone could be happy about his death don't fully understand the atrocities he committed.

Dylflon · 05-03-2011, 05:36 AM

I think the thing to do is be happy that he can't be responsible for any more deaths.

Teuthida · 05-03-2011, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Osama Bin laden is killed, and within one page of posts, not 24 hours later, it becomes about how awful America is. Amazing. Can't there be one day, one happy day, where people can just objectively admit America did something right without having to compulsively slap a "but" at the end?

No.

I haven't seen any footage but I found many of the celebration photos to be rather revolting. I can understand celebrating if you lost a loved one on that day (as I would have if it had happened a day earlier) but most of this is blind patriotism. Then again I'm also not a sports fan. I liken this to shouting "we did it" when your team wins and all your did was sit on the couch eating cheetos.

I can also see celebrating if he was killed shortly after 9/11 but since then hundreds of thousands of civilians died at the US's hands. One should be contemplative rather than celebratory.

And imagine how much better off our country would be if we stopped trying to police the world and used all that money for our own benefit? (Our drop in education compared to most other developed nations pisses me off more than anything.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFK

"We must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient; that we are only 6 percent of the world's population; that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94 percent of mankind; that we cannot right every wrong or reverse every adversity; and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem."

We're 4.5% of the world's population now btw.

Basically, if you knew someone who died as a result one of Al Qaeda's attacks, celebrate however you like. Otherwise, kindly shut it. We're screwing ourselves over more than any terrorist organization directly did.

Professor S · 05-03-2011, 08:09 AM

While this is off-topic, I'll address it:

Quote:

(Our drop in education compared to most other developed nations pisses me off more than anything.)

We spend more per student than all but one other country (Luxembourg, I believe). Money has nothing to do with it. The fact is our education system is broken because its become a bloated employment service. where the inmates run the asylum.

Back on topic:

For those who think this is just another opportunity to criticize America, well, God bless you and I'll leave it at that. If you can't just admit that there was ONE thing that we did so obviously right, then there is nothing anyone could say to dissuade you. Good news seems to infuriate those that think this way.

As for those who find it odd to take pleasure in another man's death, I sympathize, but I'll let Mark Twain put into words:

"I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

Teuthida · 05-03-2011, 09:00 AM

Don't get me wrong, it's good bin Laden was taken out. But we didn't do anything. It was a group of CIA agents who finally nailed down where he was after a decade of our country needlessly killing hundreds of thousands of innocents. Which is why I feel we shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back (or rather shouting and running around stupidly with American flags) and instead have some perspective on everything that led up to this.

Professor S · 05-03-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teuthida

Don't get me wrong, it's good bin Laden was taken out. But we didn't do anything. It was a group of CIA agents who finally nailed down where he was after a decade of our country needlessly killing hundreds of thousands of innocents. Which is why I feel we shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back (or rather shouting and running around stupidly with American flags) and instead have some perspective on everything that led up to this.

1) As a tax paying citizen we provide the ability for the CIA and Navy Seals to exist.

2) We didn't kill hundreds of thousands of innocents. Not even close. Those numbers that are often quoted are a combination of the small percentage of collateral (and regrettable) casualties caused by military activity and the high percentage of innocents killed by those we were fighting through IEDs, suicide bombings, tribal warfare, etc. People who want to persuade you that the war was evil claim that the US is just as much at fault for the actions of our enemies as they are, so they give us credit for all of it. There was a post about this a few years ago if I remember correctly...

3) Keep in mind we have no clue if we would have ever gotten Bin Laden without the war, establishing a "beach head" of sorts, capturing enemies and interrogating them, etc. The currently accepted theory in the media is that the intelligence that helped find Bin Laden came from Guantanamo, another morally ambiguous activity.

Teuthida · 05-03-2011, 09:35 AM

Which makes me feel sick knowing my tax dollars helped kill so many.

And even if those numbers aren't as high (as a result of direct US killings), it was all to kill one sick man. Other than some relief to the families he took from and a morale boost, what else did his death bring? How many less would be dead if the US didn't feel the need to go balls out trying to get to him? Pretty much every other half-baked terrorist plot by al-Qaeda was foiled since 9/11. And not because of all the strict new regulations either.

To your #3: Does that mean then, those wars were all for nothing since we had the leads to his capture so close to home all that time? That sounds even worse to me.