Buyng a Gun

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Fox 6

No offense, but if you are in a situation where you are contemplating scenarios about serial rapists or home invaders coming into your home, maybe you live in a bad place in general.

Home invasions can happen anywhere. My parents have been robbed three times (in over 30 years) and they live in Thornton, PA. If it doesn't have the lowest crime rate in the country, its close.

Its not a matter of where, but when. As Typh said, it will happen eventually, but most likely when no one is home. I just worry about the times when we're home. Again, I hope I never have to touch the thing.

According to a report by the United States Department of Justice, 38% of assaults and 60% of rapes occur in the home during an invasion.

There are some startling statistics and facts about home invasion in the United States. It is estimated that in the U.S. at least one property related crime occurs every three seconds. In the United States there were over 3,600,000 each year between 1994 and 2005. Statistics Canada reported over 289,200 per year in the last five years. Statistically there are over 8000 reported home invasions each and every day across North America.

http://www.articledashboard.com/Arti...tistics/981639

[Vampyr]

I'd like to move to a place where it doesn't happen.

I think the shotgun is a good choice - my only qualm is if you miss you're going to do some serious damage to your house.

I would still consider getting ADT, though, if you don't have it already. Most thieves are extremely scared of getting caught, and just the sign outside will be enough to deter them, let alone if an alarm went off.

[Fox 6]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

I think the shotgun is a good choice - my only qualm is if you miss you're going to do some serious damage to your house.

Even if he hits hes going to do damage to his house.

[Seth]

I'd maybe like to mention that RCMP do in fact shoot to kill. Most of the time if someone is showing signs of possible violence, the officer assumes that their life is in danger and more often than not a few bullets are fired at the torso. 'Maiming' isn't clipping elbows, it's subduing by bullets to the torso. Granted, there are officers with common sense enough to tear apart someone's calf or femur if the assailant isn't posing an instant threat(approaching with a knife).
I sometimes think it would be better to have a bullet to a limb instead of the freaky tazering...but there's always the chance that the officer didn't get his morning cup of coffee.

bang bang bang

[manasecret]

So, Typh, you're saying rape and murder rates in home invasions for Vancouver are much lower than the U.S. I wonder what the actual stats are beyond your anecdotal evidence for Vancouver. That sounds pretty far-fetched to me.

I mean, I don't know of anyone that had their home invaded and were murdered or raped, but it doesn't mean the rate is any different than other places.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by manasecret

So, Typh, you're saying rape and murder rates in home invasions for Vancouver are much lower than the U.S. I wonder what the actual stats are beyond your anecdotal evidence for Vancouver. That sounds pretty far-fetched to me

in 2006 There were 45.3 violent offences involving guns for every 100,000 people in Metro Vancouver

And just for fun, the homocide rate in Canada is 1.85 per 100,000 (as of 2006)
As of 2006, the homocide rate for the US is 5.69 per 100,000.

However, in Vancouver the homocide rate is 2.01 per 100,000 people.

The rate of robbery incidents fell 4% in 2004. Police reported more than 27,000 robberies in Canada, half of which were committed without a weapon of any kind. The rate of robberies committed with a firearm continued to decline, down 3% in 2004, accounting for one in seven robberies. The remaining 35% of robberies were committed with other weapons such as knives.

About 41% of all robberies occurred in commercial establishments, including 16% in convenience stores or gas stations and 5% in banks. The next most common locations were streets/sidewalks (30%), private residences (8%) parking lots (6%) and open areas (5%).

So believe me when I say, around here it's relatively unlikely.

[Typhoid]

For comparison of Canadian crimes (All as of 2004, can't find a newer census):
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...50721a-eng.htm

622 homocides.
23,534 sexual assaults.
27,477 robberies.
17,294 thefts over $5000.
680,885 thefts under $5000.
18,002 counts of offensive weapons.
48,052 people caught posessing marijuana.

For fun though, let's do that as per 100,000 people:

2 homocides per 100,000 people.
860 B&E's per 100,000 people.
54 thefts over 5 grand per 100,000 people.
150 in posession of pot per 100,000 people.
304 drug related incidents per 100,000 people.

But remember, that is all of Canada - not Vancouver.

[manasecret]

So, ok, the violent crime rate appears to be less (though none of those stats directly address home invasion), but in any case it's not like it's nonexistent in Canada (and even more so in Vancouver). So it's not like the scenarios Prof. S are saying happen all the time in the U.S. but never happen in Vancouver.

For full disclosure, I lean towards not owning a gun for home protection. I think the chances of something going wrong with the gun and hurting someone are higher than the chances of your home being violently invaded. I just take issue with your statement that you can't fathom Prof. S's scenarios because you live in the utopia of Vancouver.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by manasecret

So, ok, the violent crime rate appears to be less (though none of those stats directly address home invasion)

What are you talking about?
It's lumped in with Robberies.
In Canada we don't get alot, so we have to combine stats.

Police reported more than 27,000 robberies in Canada, half of which were committed without a weapon of any kind. The rate of robberies committed with a firearm continued to decline, down 3% in 2004, accounting for one in seven robberies. The remaining 35% of robberies were committed with other weapons such as knives.

1 in 7 robberies in Canada, the person has a gun.

And since you want the direct stat:

The rate of break-ins fell 4% to just under 275,000 [In all of Canada] and was 36% lower than a decade ago. More than one-half (56%) of break-ins were committed in residences, about one-third (31%) in businesses and the remaining 13% occurred in other areas such as garden sheds and schools.

So let's just shoot the shit and say 125,000 break-ins in all of Canada in a given year in a residence, and if 1 and 7 of every break in has a gun, that means of those 125,000 residential break-ins, 17,857 of them were possibly armed with a gun and 107,143 of them had either no weapon at all, or a knife.

because you live in the utopia of Vancouver.

Mercer World Rankings 2009:
1. Vienna, Austria
2. Zurich, Switzerland
3. Geneva, Switzerland
4. Vancouver, Canada

Top 5 cities based on quality of living in the Americas:
1. Vancouver, Canada (4th in world)
2. Toronto, Canada (15th in world ranking)
3.Ottawa, Canada (16th world ranking)

Top 5 cities based on infrastructure in the Americas:
1. Vancouver, Canada (6th in world)
2. Atlanta, USA (15th in world)
3. Montreal, Canada (15th in world)

Just sayin'.

[manasecret]

No, Typh, apparently "home invasion" is defined as breaking into a home with intent for violence or rape, or that ends up in violence or rape. I say "apparently" because I just learned that myself. I don't think any of those stats pertain to that specifically.

But regardless, such things still happen in Vancouver and Canada. It may not be as common as in the U.S., but it's not exactly likely that it will happen to you in the U.S. either. So that you can't fathom it happening in Vantopia sounds like b.s. from pride. But I think your further comments confirm that's it's more about your opinion that you wouldn't own a gun to protect your home either way. Which I tend to agree with.

And good for Vancouver. I didn't know it was so well rated.

Buuuut... what do the native Americans up there think of that rating?

[Combine 017]

Most of the Native Americans around here are drug dealers and gang members, at least the ones on the island as far as I know. Many a time have I been told not to talk to or go near any natives while visiting the island.

[Professor S]

I really don't understand why Typhoid won't answer my scenarios. I'm not even asking him to approve owning a gun, just to see if analyze whether or not the scenarios are reasonable if someone did have a gun and someone invaded their home.

To be honest, Typh, I think your avoiding the questions because you are uncomfortable with the obvious answer: "Yes, that is a reasonable response."

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Professor S

I really don't understand why Typhoid won't answer my scenarios. I'm not even asking him to approve owning a gun, just to see if analyze whether or not the scenarios are reasonable if someone did have a gun and someone invaded their home.

To be honest, Typh, I think your avoiding the questions because you are uncomfortable with the obvious answer: "Yes, that is a reasonable response."

I answered it.

If I haven't answered it to your liking, re-ask the scenario, and I will re-answer it.

Edit: And Mana, it's not 'bs about pride'. It's because I'm honestly not concerned about someone breaking into my house with intent to kill. Rob me of things, sure. But I'm not worried they'll have a gun. But the other half of that was tongue-in-cheek, if you didn't notice.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I answered it.

If I haven't answered it to your liking, re-ask the scenario, and I will re-answer it.

This isn't a US presidential debate. You don't get to rewrite my questions because you find their premise uncomfortable. These scenarios have nothing to do with judging gun ownership, alarm systems or pet availability. They are specific situations where you have a gun and your home has been invaded. Would you behave as described in the scenarios or not? If not, how would you behave differently in those situations?

Either answer it or don't, it will be the last time I bring it up. To be honest, your refusal to respond to what are really simple scenarios tells me more than your answer ever could.