Obama to brainwash youths of America

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Teuthida

How does one fix a society?

"One" doesn't and can't. One person can influence a society, but change cannot be imposed open an unwilling populace. The old cliche is that "transformative change takes place in small steps over time", and that is as true as any statement ever made.

We've seen significant steps forward in many cultural issues over the last century, but most of them were generational shifts, taking decades in total, not moments. It's best that way, because a long process is generally a thoughtful one, and a society can avoid many of the unintended consequences of immediate/rash action.

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by Professor S

"One" doesn't and can't. One person can influence a society, but change cannot be imposed open an unwilling populace.

Tell that to President Bush about Iraq! Oh, wait, too late.

*Cue flaming*

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Tell that to President Bush about Iraq! Oh, wait, too late.

*Cue flaming*

Actually, in hindsight I'd have to agree with this statement. I think the cultural challenges associated with winning the "hearts and minds" were greatly underestimated when it came to Iraq, reflecting our natural predisposition to assume other cultures share similar values. Now it looks like it's going to actually pan out (Afghanistan, not so much), but still Iraq tends to show this as a rule and not an exception to it.

And Teuth, that Jesus camp was not run or endorsed by Bush's adminsitration nor did it take place in public schools, and the Rep leader in Florida is not the President and leader of the free world, but this is besides the point. If a Republican president were to try to endorse himself through our schools, I'd be just as uncomfortable, and uncomfortable is all I am with this. It's a minor issue, but what I find funny is that it should never have been an issue at all because it never should have happened in the first place

Overall, I'm more of an active observer watching this Presidency continually make the wrong moves at the wrong time, and unknowingly helping to foment the entire "movement" that seems to be building against him, with utterly no understanding of how it's happening. So in not understanding, they dismiss it as simply political wrangling, and get themselves in even hotter water.

This is obliviousness at it's very worst, and by worst I mean best . All jokes aside, our country has never been more fractured as I believe the two sides in conflict genuinely have no common ground whatsoever, and they genuinely have contempt for one another. This President was supposed to bring us together, but I think it's pretty obvious that his approach to law making and communicating in general has done the exact opposite. He is the leader oif our country, and in the end this is his failure, regardless of whether or not you feel there are "forces" working against him.

[TheGame]

I was going to argue with Prof, since I disagree with the last part of what Jonbo and Prof said.. How quickly we forget how bush would get democrats to vote with him be just acting like its an emergency.

I just want to say, though, that the democratic party is beyond weak. When the republicans had even a slight advangage in the house and senate under Bush, Democrats bowed their heads and reached out to try to help the republicans even though the republican representatives were not even trying to reach out to or mold any type of policy around anything any democrat would want.

And now that democrats can pass things without even having ONE vote from a republican representative.. they still act weak and try to reach out to get their approval even though its not needed. All the republicans are doing is trying to water down things like healthcare reform as much as possible, and when time comes to vote on it, they will still vote against it.

It really had boiled down to voting for the lesser of two evils when it comes to politics these days. Nothing Obama has actually done in his time as president can even be called 'progressive'. Hell I'd call him a conservative before I'd call him a radical any day, because he's actually not pushing for any real change. The only thing he's done well is handle forgien policy and help clean up the countries reputation with the rest of the world.

As Jonbo pointed out Media plays both sides of the story, and are not really in pursuit of the truth anymore. For example, If Sarah Palin complains about death panels being in the health care reform bill, then its just played as news... without people stepping in and saying its inaccurate. They're just like 'Democrats say there's no death pannels, some of these random people say there are death pannels.. ok on to the next story'... seriously?

I can't even watch mainstream media anymore these days without feeling ill.

[KillerGremlin]

Obama really seems like he needs to validate his approval...Bill Maher said it best. He said if Obama wants to really get things done he needs to just go ahead, kind of like Bush. Bush's whole thing was, "Well...see, I don't really care if you disagree with me about the war in Iraq, because, you see, I am right. And I don't care what you think. I'm the President of the United States, bitches!" If Obama was less concerned about TV appearances and appealing to people and more concerned about getting his shit done...then I think he could get stuff done. Like Bill Maher said, 60% of Americans don't believe in Evolution. Why would you try to validate yourself amongst a country full of dumbasses. /not a huge Bill Maher fan but he makes me smile

Interview Part 1: http://www.hulu.com/watch/91684/the-...l-maher-part-1
Interview Part 2: http://www.hulu.com/watch/91683/the-...l-maher-part-2

Now I don't know if I necessarily agree with going ahead and doing whatever you want. But I do think in order to do things you need to offend some people. This is how the real world works. There is no such thing as making 100% of everyone happy, so sometimes you need to do what you think is best and hope for the best. And things like education give people more credibility than some people with no education. My point is....even in a Democracy, someone is going to be pissed.

I agree with Prof S though...this country is incredibly divided right now, and that is not a good thing. Civil War part 2 anyone?

[KillerGremlin]

Bill Maher's quote I like:

"This is where the President needs to be a little more like Bush. Bush had horrible ideas: torture, deregulation, massive tax cuts for the rich, preemptive war: horrible ideas. But you know what he had that swagger that said, "I'm just gonna get it through, suck on it America if you don't like it." Obama he needs to marry his good ideas with that kind of attitude.

[Professor S]

I think we're forgetting the will of the American people in all of this blaming of media, politics, etc.

The fact is more people are for tax cuts than they are for public health programs.

The fact is more people supported the Iraq war when it happened and the Patriot Act than believe in global warming (Cap and Trade).

The fact is Bush did what he did, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, and got reelected handily in 2004 well after the Iraq war started.

Bush's policies got approved because he was convincing in his arguments, for whatever reason you wish to attach. This isn't a statement of personal approval, it's a observation of fact.

The fact is that if Obama forced through policies with the amount of opposition he faces now, he would be rode out of office on a rail in 2012 (with possibly and attempt on his life before that, sadly), and the Dems would suffer a election holocaust in 2010, and all this work they're trying to do would be gleefully erased within 2 years. Obama isn't a wimp, he's pragmatic and he understands what he can and can't get away with if he wants to achieve his goals and make them stick.

President Obama needs to convince the American people that his ideas are the right ones. To date, he hasn't been able to do so, and that is a failure of leadership.