How Do You Defend Your Home?

[Szymon]

If I had a wife and kids I'd ask em to lock the door. At this point, if I was getting robbed I would probably stay in bed and ask the robber(s) to keep the noise down if they were being too loud.

[Angrist]

What's with all the gun love? As a European I find it hard to understand.

I mean, I try to, and I do understand the reasoning behind it... but Europe is gunless and we still manage to protect our houses.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Angrist

What's with all the gun love? As a European I find it hard to understand.

I mean, I try to, and I do understand the reasoning behind it... but Europe is gunless and we still manage to protect our houses.

I think the idea is that someone breaking in probably would be carrying a gun (if they don't care to break the law to get into your house, then they probably don't care to break the law and carry a weapon).

So it doesn't matter what you do to protect yourself or your home you aren't going to be able to do that against someone with a gun unless you yourself have one.

Unless you are a jedi with a lightsaber or something and can somehow block bullets.

[BreakABone]

Is it just me or does this seem like a thread for Bond to gather intelligence on everyone's defenses... I think he is looking to rob you folks, but don't quote me on it.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Angrist

What's with all the gun love? As a European I find it hard to understand.

I mean, I try to, and I do understand the reasoning behind it... but Europe is gunless and we still manage to protect our houses.

I believe Europe is a pretty "gunless" society, meaning that there aren't many guns circulating and if you wish to buy one legally it's generally pretty hard. That makes the odds oif being robbed/assaulted with a firearm much lower.

In the US, the gun genie is out of the bottle, with plenty being available and circulating, legally and illegally. Even if we were to ban guns, there are so many out there already it wouldn't affect criminals much at this point, IMO, and if the criminal element is going to be armed the legal element should be as well.

Also, America is very much a gun culture. We are children of violent, if reluctant, revolution. It's in our Constitution and for a long time it was considered a civic duty to own a firearm because it was the society itself that was the last lines of American defense. Times have changed, but that does not make the existing firearms disappear that were a product of previous eras.

[Angrist]

I always just assume that a robber is after my possessions, not after my life. If I don't have a gun, I am less of a threat to him. I'd rather have him steal my stuff than us waving our guns at each other.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Angrist

I always just assume that a robber is after my possessions, not after my life. If I don't have a gun, I am less of a threat to him. I'd rather have him steal my stuff than us waving our guns at each other.

I would probably act under the assumption that anyone who is going to stoop to robbing you isn't far from killing you in order to protect themselves. Your presence could easily be enough for him to shoot you if he is armed. I mean think about it - do you think the guy will just leave you there after he steals your stuff, knowing you could call the police and report him the moment he leaves?

Thieves are generally extremely nervous about getting caught, that's why having a sign saying your house is protected by a security system is usually enough to keep them away, even if you don't have one.

I don't know, I wouldn't be willing to trust a thief not to kill me if he realized I was home.

But there probably wouldn't be much gun waving if I caught him, either. I don't think I'd risk going movie-style and telling him to freeze - I would shoot first and ask questions later.

[Angrist]

So you're saying that with every break-in, somebody dies. Either the robber or the house owner. Both don't trust each other, so they instantly kill each other.

I think the figures show something else. So does my sense of logic.

Anyway, why do I even bother? I bet all the arguments I like to come up with have already been used thousands of times.

Edit: 1 last one, a nice scripture I try to live by.
Matthew 26:52 "Jesus said to him: 'Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.'"

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by Vampyr

Your presence could easily be enough for him to shoot you if he is armed.

Indeed, it happens all the time... "Robbery/Home Invasion 'gone bad'" they like to call it on the news...

That said, I don't necessarily condone the possession of automatic rifles or amassing your own personal arsenal or setting up traps involving marbles or blowtorches or any of that crazy stuff...
I'd settle for a Colt Single Action Army, just in case I had a 3:00a.m. run-in with an elephant.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Angrist

So you're saying that with every break-in, somebody dies. Either the robber or the house owner.

No, because not all home invasions involve a confrontation with the home owners.
And not all confrontations that do occur involve guns.
Then, of course, there's the Slomin's Shield.

[KillerGremlin]

Consider me apathetic up front.

I believe most statistics show that most robbers want to avoid confrontation. This is why the bulk of robberies occur during the day while people are at work. Most people who are robbing you don't want to escalate the situation to assault or murder. The "breaking in at night" story is much more interesting than the, "I went on vacation or I was at work and some of my shit got stolen" story. That's why the news tends to favor the rare "breaking in at night" stories.

I also believe statistics show high mortality rates when home confrontations happens when someone breaks into the house of someone who has an unregistered firearm. These statistics seem to be most dense in cities with high rates of gang violence and poverty, like Chicago's west side (makes sense to me).

This is food for thought for the ensuing Europe vs. Uncle Sam and his Gun debate.

My own thoughts are one day I will educate myself on how to properly use a firearm. Once I am adequate at hitting a target, loading the gun, cleaning the gun, assembling the gun, and taking it apart - ALL WHILE FOCUSING ON SAFETY FIRST - then I will consider a firearm a welcome addition to my home.

A final thought...having actually stayed out on a real farm in the middle of the country in both Indiana and Central Illinois...a farm where dogs roam around at night, and it is pitch black, and the nearest neighbor is a few miles away...I would definitely want a few guns in my house. I realize the logic about someone robbing your country house is pretty solid, what STEREOTYPICAL burglar is gonna drive out into the middle of bumfuck nowhere to rob a house on a farm?. Well...the reality is people steal farm equipment all the time, and farm equipment is expensive shit. That is why there are dogs roaming the farm and farmer Joe has a shotgun and a pitchfork.

[Vampyr]

Originally Posted by Angrist

So you're saying that with every break-in, somebody dies. Either the robber or the house owner. Both don't trust each other, so they instantly kill each other.

I think the figures show something else. So does my sense of logic.

Anyway, why do I even bother? I bet all the arguments I like to come up with have already been used thousands of times.

Edit: 1 last one, a nice scripture I try to live by.
Matthew 26:52 "Jesus said to him: 'Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.'"

Like other people have said, the vast majority of the time you won't be at home. But if someone does break in while you're asleep, or if you decided to take the day off from work and they choose that day to break in...better safe than sorry.

And that scripture is like saying innocent people don't get killed. That just isn't true. I think the quote is more saying "don't go seeking combat" then it is saying don't be prepared to defend yourself.

But yes, I would probably instantly shoot the intruder than risk something happening to me or my girlfriend. Or even my cat.

[Fyacin]

Pretty much the only we keep a gun out here for are the coyotes.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Angrist

So you're saying that with every break-in, somebody dies. Either the robber or the house owner. Both don't trust each other, so they instantly kill each other.

I think the figures show something else. So does my sense of logic.

Like others have said, it depends on whether or not you're home. Most of the time you won't be, but my sense of logic says that if someone breaks in while I'm home, they've probably seen my car in the drive and know I'm there and don't care. That makes them dangerous. Likely to happen? No, but it does happen.

Edit: 1 last one, a nice scripture I try to live by.
Matthew 26:52 "Jesus said to him: 'Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.'"

I also remember this one: "FUCK YOU, MONEY CHANGERS! Think of my fist as the body of Christ and eat my knuckle eucharist!"

I kid, I kid. But seriously:

If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed

From Exodus

[Swan]

I have many traps set up that I check at the end of every week.



After checking them I determine how many carnivirous felines that I need to order for the month

[Angrist]

Originally Posted by Professor S

From Exodus

True, but that's not all of it.

Originally Posted by Exodus 22:2,3

“If a thief should be found in the act of breaking in and he does get struck and die, there is no bloodguilt for him. If the sun has shone forth upon him, there is bloodguilt for him.

Only when it was dark, was the defender not guilty of bloodshed. When it was during the day, he wasn't allowed to kill him, probably because he could identify the offender and justice could be served.

Even though the old testament directly doesn't apply to us (for example, we don't kill people for fornication anymore), we can learn something from it. You are allowed to defend your life, but would you kill somebody if he only was after your possessions? Hm maybe this scripture can be interesting here, I don't know.

Originally Posted by 1 John 2:15-17

Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.

Anyway, I think I'm pretty much done with this discussion, but I just felt you had left something out.