Thoughts on the death penalty?

[BlueFire]

I find this discussion to be quite interesting and I have two questions:

1) TheGame, if I remember correctly, you are a Christian, right? How do you reconcile your Christian beliefs with your approval of the death penalty (if you are a Christian)?

2) Bringing economics back into this (sorry, Prof ), is the death penalty really a wiser choice? According to ACLU in their "Case against the Death Penalty,"

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT COSTS MORE THAN INCARCERATION

It is sometimes suggested that abolishing capital punishment is unfair to the taxpayer, on the assumption that life imprisonment is more expensive than execution. If one takes into account all the relevant costs, however, just the reverse is true. "The death penalty is not now, nor has it ever been, a more economical alternative to life imprisonment."56 A murder trial normally takes much longer when the death penalty is at issue than when it is not. Litigation costs – including the time of judges, prosecutors, public defenders, and court reporters, and the high costs of briefs – are mostly borne by the taxpayer. A 1982 study showed that were the death penalty to be reintroduced in New York, the cost of the capital trial alone would be more than double the cost of a life term in prison.57

In Maryland, a comparison of capital trial costs with and without the death penalty for the years 1979-1984 concluded that a death penalty case costs "approximately 42 percent more than a case resulting in a non-death sentence."58 In 1988 and 1989 the Kansas legislature voted against reinstating the death penalty after it was informed that reintroduction would involve a first-year cost of "more than $11 million."59 Florida, with one of the nation's most populous death rows, has estimated that the true cost of each execution is approximately $3.2 million, or approximately six times the cost of a life-imprisonment sentence."60

A 1993 study of the costs of North Carolina's capital punishment system revealed that litigating a murder case from start to finish adds an extra $163,000 to what it would cost the state to keep the convicted offender in prison for 20 years. The extra cost goes up to $216,000 per case when all first-degree murder trials and their appeals are considered, many of which do not end with a death sentence and an execution.61

From one end of the country to the other public officials decry the additional cost of capital cases even when they support the death penalty system. "Wherever the death penalty is in place, it siphons off resources which could be going to the front line in the war against crime…. Politicians could address this crisis, but, for the most part they either endorse executions or remain silent."62 The only way to make the death penalty more "cost effective" than imprisonment is to weaken due process and curtail appellate review, which are the defendant's (and society's) only protection against the most aberrant miscarriages of justice. Any savings in dollars would, of course, be at the cost of justice: In nearly half of the death-penalty cases given review under federal habeas corpus provisions, the murder conviction or death sentence was overturned.63

In 1996, in response to public clamor for accelerating executions, Congress imposed severe restrictions on access to federal habeas corpus64 and also ended all funding of the regional death penalty "resource centers" charged with providing counsel on appeal in the federal courts.65These restrictions virtually guarantee that the number and variety of wrongful murder convictions and death sentences will increase. The savings in time and money will prove to be illusory.

You can check their sources in the end notes.

Anyway.. thoughts?

[KillerGremlin]

Originally Posted by takegiantsteps

1) TheGame, if I remember correctly, you are a Christian, right? How do you reconcile your Christian beliefs with your approval of the death penalty (if you are a Christian)?

I'll answer that. The Old Testament frowns upon murder (hence the Commandment) but it actually suggests the death penalty (or punishment of death) for acts of Adultery, Bestiality, and yes, Murder.

The New Testament doesn't explicitly say as far as I know, and the message (Jesus' message) is mostly love and happy times.

There's a reason hardcore Islamic countries still stone people to death for having affairs and stuff; because it's in the theology. =/

I'd say it is fairly open-ended. I don't know what the Catholic (or Pope's) position is. I never really asked and the topic never came up during church. I suppose the issue depends on who you are and how you want to interpret the Bible and your faith.

[BlueFire]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

I'll answer that. The Old Testament frowns upon murder (hence the Commandment) but it actually suggests the death penalty (or punishment of death) for acts of Adultery, Bestiality, and yes, Murder.

The New Testament doesn't explicitly say as far as I know, and the message (Jesus' message) is mostly love and happy times.

There's a reason hardcore Islamic countries still stone people to death for having affairs and stuff; because it's in the theology. =/

I'd say it is fairly open-ended. I don't know what the Catholic (or Pope's) position is. I never really asked and the topic never came up during church. I suppose the issue depends on who you are and how you want to interpret the Bible and your faith.

The Catholic view:

In Evangelium Vitae, the Church teaches that capital punishment should be avoided unless it is the only way to defend society from the offender in question, and that with today's penal system such a situation requiring an execution is either rare or non-existent.[87] The Catechism of the Catholic Church holds a similar view

..thank you, Wikipedia.

Christians supporting the death penalty doesn't make a lot of sense to me. In my ~*~amazing Catholic upbringing~*~, it felt more like you could learn more from the New Testament than the Old Testament. Believing in the values Jesus Christ taught and supporting the death penalty.. seems like a big joke.

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by takegiantsteps

I find this discussion to be quite interesting and I have two questions:

1) TheGame, if I remember correctly, you are a Christian, right? How do you reconcile your Christian beliefs with your approval of the death penalty (if you are a Christian)?

http://www.gotquestions.org/death-penalty.html

The only reason I'm using that site is because I didn't feel like digging up the info myself. But the bible does support giving the right for people to execute others for commiting crimes. Though this point is one of the many things in the bible that can be read both ways, and can be used by either side to justify or to not justify capital punishment.

In this case I'm using my own judgement. I don't feel like the death penalty is a happy thing, however I feel like it is a nessicary thing to have to keep people's morals in check. Just as I don't think war is a happy thing, but I still think that it is nessicary to prevent your home land from being made vunerable to attacks.

And to me it simply makes more sense then locking someone away forever.

2) Bringing economics back into this (sorry, Prof ), is the death penalty really a wiser choice? According to ACLU in their "Case against the Death Penalty,"

Yeah I'm well aware of the facts presented in that article, which is why I feel the system as it is now is broken.. To quote myself:

"Here's what I think the solutions would be:
1) Death penalty should only be reserved for crimes that are public displays, and that are caught on tape. And when its sentanced it should hapen quickly, instead of allowing the govt to waste tons of money on keeping them on death row."

The death penalty, as handled by most states that have it, I disagree with right now. But I don't disagree with the overall concept of executing someone for a crime that they commit.

-EDIT-

I'd also toss in the fact that, depending on the crime.. if a person takes ownership of it and its bad enough. I'd still give them the death penalty even without sufficient evidence. If we captured Osama Bin Laden right now, and he swears he wasn't the one behind 9-11 and other attacks, then I'd toss him in prison for the rest of his life. If he claims he was behind it, and doesn't really have and remorse for what he did, then in the words of movie directors... "That's a wrap"

[KillerGremlin]

TheGame, I'd like you to humor my question if you do not mind.

Being a supporter of the death penalty, would you tie the noose? That is to say, do you consider it your duty to provide the service of keeping an even moral slate in our society? Should the executioner be similar to the civil servant in Jury Duty position?

If you had the switch and Bin Laden, would you pull it?

[TheGame]

Originally Posted by KillerGremlin

TheGame, I'd like you to humor my question if you do not mind.

Being a supporter of the death penalty, would you tie the noose? That is to say, do you consider it your duty to provide the service of keeping an even moral slate in our society? Should the executioner be similar to the civil servant in Jury Duty position?

If you had the switch and Bin Laden, would you pull it?

If he was tried and found guilty in a court of law, yes I would.

A lot of people don't have the nerve to do it, but I've had friends (and one family member) who we're killed before. I've sat with families who had to grieve the loss of their children, and been to funerals that shouldn't have happend as soon as they did. Mentally, all I'd have to do is think about the looks on those people's faces, and multiply it by the amount of lives that man has taken.

With that said, it shouldn't be like jury duty. It would take a person who understands what his affect on people really was.. Not some person who isn't in touch with reality.