Bond, according to wiki Reagan had no idea about the arms for hostages 'scandal'. So really, administrative members were acting without the president's approval. The guilty parties involved were later pardoned by Bush sr. I'd also conjecture that the reagan of 1964 wasn't under the same influences as when in office. Don't misunderstand my comment as insuniating Reagan wasn't intelligent. Anyone with high political ideals can be manipulated. Dick Cheney, VP, holds tons of power...in the way that he's basically a lobbyist in an elected position. Given the vast amount of wealth of the bush family, their ties with oil, well I'd say that's power. Believe that the nice talking Reagan was free to make the best decisions for the american people instead of looking out for the status quo. Same thing with Obama, he's a beacon of hope. He's also the highest funded presidential candidate in history....which, hahaha, ensures that he'll be representing the working class american.
Hey, they used a portion of the profits from the arms sales in iran to give weapons to the nicaragua anticommunist militias...and they got cocaine in exchange. cocaine which they smuggled into america....the CIA did this. Sure, this all happened within the intelligence community without presidential administrative knowledge. suuuure. Believe that if it helps you sleep. Hey, they also destroyed evidence about the iran-contra affair...they probably just burnt the info that had no relevence with accountability towards the american people. Go ahead and call me a CT because I believe that money moves politics. sure, whatever. I'm not into canned food and weapons...and especially underground bunkers. You're just another fratboy so of course your opinions have a collective merit.
My problem with conspiracy theories in general is that they are overly simplistic. The world is a complex string of economies, governments, cultures, religions, etc. One theory cannot and never will be able to explain the inner workings of all these combined elements.
You also have to take into account that America has been, and still is, the sole world power. This is a tremendous and complex responsibility, and cannot be oversimplified. Nixon wrote several great books on this issue.
Seth, you say you keep an open mind toward evidence... what evidence? What evidence do you have that Bush ran the Reagan whitehouse? What undebunked hard evidence do you have that 9/11 was an inside job? What real evidence do you have for any of this? Where are the documents? Where is the smoking gun? Nixon couldn't get away with a simple robbery without getting nailed... how is the world elite getting away with their nefarious schemes without producing a single verifiable shred of real evidence????
Evidemnce is not correlations or absence of contrarian data. Evidence is fact and is empirically viable. IMO, conspiracy theory is a mental dysfunction that relies on the lack of proof to validate wild logical leaps and imaginative explanations for our own feelings of powerlessness. Why aren't you a brilliant success? Who is keeping you back? Why is the world not perfect? Well, it must be a shadow government...
When it comes to the NWO, not only have you taken Presidential statements out of context, just as you previously took history out of context when talking about Iran and the arms deals (by the way, the Ayatollah was not "loved" by his people, at least not how you portray it. I personally know two families that RAN from the Ayatollah), but you still fail to post any evidence.
The greatest logical evidence that these crackpot theories are wrong is that Alex Jones is still alive. If the world is run by such a small collection of infinitely powerful people, why would they allow their "greatest nemesis" to live? They wouldn't.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
Good question prof s. Watergate was a media frenzy, distracting from the real issues. Unelected Gerald Ford became president as a result, he then used the 25th to appoint Nelson Rockefeller as VP. Ford didn't cleanse the hill of corruption. -Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin, George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography, Chapter 7
What are your thoughts about the destroyed evidence in the Iran-Contra scandal? That's fact and it's right out of the same wiki article you posted. Because it was destroyed do you assume the evidence was irrevelent to holding accountable the people involved?
You're pushing it with the conspiracy theory impact on the whole of one's life. I don't blame other people or organizations for my shortcomings. I know that I won't come out with an MA if I don't study hard at my uni. I believe in taking charge of one's life fully, and that, until a political powered entity removes my rights to follow what I want, well, no one else is to blame. I believe that disproportionate taxing does little to help the working class and effectively enables the richest of the country to dodge paying taxes...i believe this has a relative influence on my life, but I don't point to a Rockefellar power cabal or anything as the men in charge. Prof, I feel like you stereotype me into a raving alex jones loving CTheorist which isn't at all what I am. I can't bear listening to jones' garbage. If anything he's a perpetuator of the system, leading astray people who feel like the corruption spans past an administrative body, and has it's roots more in money. Alex Jones doesn't represent the conspiracy theory culture. He's a vent that the average joe american can listen to and form conclusions. I'm not saying that everything he says is garbage, but a lot of it is merely speculation. I think he takes truths and renders them invalid. That's why he's alive. Plus, martyred people...with his profile, make people protest.
I remember the popular science article you posted which was supposedly an infallible refute of the other view. http://www.ae911truth.org/
have you read the evidence in that website? They're architects and engineers, finding faults with the official story. I'd say it's worth your time. It's a different website than 9/11truth.org
The majority of Iranians felt that Ayatollah was a good leader. Yes, he murdered and persecuted, but so did the shah before him. Heck, they'd rape virgins before executing them because it's law that a virgin can't be put to death.
What do you think of the Defense Authorization Act of 2007? It gives the president power to declare marshal law for the laughable reason of restoring public order. Do you see your country heading in a good direction? What do you think of publicly elected officials(clinton, harper) speaking at Bilderberg meetings? Is it ok for government elects to hold private meetings, barred from media scrutiny? Maybe you believe the public's to stupid to form a rational opinion based on openness and honesty.
I'd ask you to read the power elite playbook series of articles, but you'd probably decline, seeing as how they're on conspiracyarchive.com All the articles are heavily referenced. I'm open to any articles you have which back your opinion.
I've found that the Bible has a lot to say about end times. If you want true answers, it's all in that book. None of you guys believe in its validity I can assume. Don't go Dawkins on me, but I believe that fulfilled prophecy has proven the authenticity of the Bible.
Seth, beyond the Popular Science article I've posted, there are numerous photos, interviews and other organizations that have debunked the 9/11 myths you propogate, and for every myth that is debunked a new one will pop up in its place. Thats what happens with urban legends, and 9/11 truth is nothing more than that. I'm done going back and forth because there will always be a severe fringe minority voice that you will champion on the subject. Its pointless to argue religion, and to you this is honestly a religion.
As for covering up evidence for Iran Contra, that came out in the open during various hearings. No secret meetings... no clandestine shit... just the process at work and chickens coming home to roost.
...
So the scanadal of Nixon was to cover for Gerald Ford being sent in as President??? You mean Nixon's resignation as President and the orderly transfer of power to Ford, the Vice President as its written in the Constitution, was a conspiracy??? DO YOU READ TO YOUR OWN COMMENTS??? I guess Bush lost to Obama because the Rothchilds deemed that Obama/Anti-Christ must come to power and Bush only was so unpopular to bring Obama to power....
How can't you see how this type of thinking castrates you? EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY! Why bother trying if you have no control?
The biggest problems with conspiracy is that its completely subjective. Everything that confirms your belief is truth, and everything in the contrary is simply part of the conspiracy. Its nuts.
I'm not arguing that there isn't corruption, but to transform selfish/arrogant people into super-intelligent megalomaniacs our for world domination and not simply out for their own personal betterment is fiction.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
Of course I'm not saying that the nixon scandal was a cover for Ford properly taking office. I just didn't add that it took public spotlight away from Kissinger and the whole vietnam fiasco. I'm not claiming a conspiracy. I just added the Ford/Rockefeller part to show that corruption didn't disappear with Nixon's demise from office. I was right though, you won't even look at a NEW website which has over a 130 professional architects and engineers who throw more evidence in. I know they had hearings for the iran contra scandal. What I'm saying is that they DESTROYED EVIDENCE. Fact. wiki. that's all i'm saying.
You wouldn't know the Biblically identified antichrist anyway. You obviously don't have an education in the field. Obama's just a corrupt politician. cool it luke. Again, you say believing in a conspiracy throws personal control of anything out the window. You're a funny guy. Anyway, you already seem to know me so this is it for this thread.
Seth, what makes you think I haven't already been to the site you posted? I defer to the vast majority of interviews and evidence from people who were actually there and saw it happen. I had a friend of mine who was in building 7 and can personally debunk that nonsense. Again, its pointless to argue with you. You see what you want and re-read what you already believe.
As for Iran-Contra, I KNOW EVIDENCE WAS DESTROYED. It was in the damn HEARINGS. Jesus Christ! Do you read what I post?
And I never claimed that corruption doesn't exist, I simply deny that its a part of some rediculous NWO consiracy for world domination that fits into your particular apocalyptic religious beliefs, or I think thats what I'vbe gleaned from this conversation. Its very difficult to discuss this theories of yours as you seem to avoid your own arguments and refuse to make real declaritive statements regarding them. So here is an attempt at clarity:
Do you believe that the New World Order conspiracy theory, if true, is a step in the process that will bring about the apocalypse/revelation/etc.?
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
In response to your question,
yes? Any worldwide governing body which undermines the rights and freedoms of individuals is a step towards what the Bible teaches as the end of times. I don't know why you care...except to clarify my obvious fanatical/apocalyptic beliefs. Clarity, so there it is. I'm curious as to where you're heading with that.
My point about destroyed evidence being that things aren't necessarily what they seem. The hearings did cover the fact that evidence was destroyed, but it didn't cover the material that was destroyed, so the facts available to the public in that manner aren't all there. I'm basically trying to point out that it doesn't matter how open and public a scandal becomes, if incriminating evidence was destroyed beforehand, then justice has been tampered and the whole story(entirety of recorded facts) will never reach the public.
edit: How does your friend debunk the building 7 allegations? What about all the other eyewitnesses who heard explosions? Please, post up some articles which shakedown the 9/11 conspiracy arguments. I've read some and I wouldn't mind reading more. What did your friends have to say?
Denis Praeger always says that in leiu of agreement you can have clarity. I simply wanted to clarify your opinions, as you are rarely clear when it comes to making declarative statements. Even you affirmative answer has a question mark after it.
As for building 7, she witnessed how the building was in terrible shape and was listing in parts prior to the collapse. She was in the basement for a time after the attack. Here is a site with related materials:
As for explosions, and witnesses to their sounds, I doubt the witnesses have that trained of ears to recognize controlled demo from blowing air pockets and failing structural supports. To say that people heard explosions that day is to state the obvious, and it doesn't prove any sort of theory. Its just more ambiguous correlative observation that has no tie to any form of conspiracy except for the one our active minds wish to invent.
Also, it takes WEEKS of preparation to set up the implosions you claim, including cutting into structural supports, stripping most of the internal facade, etc. Kind of hard to hide work like this, although I'm sure there are many explanations of mysteriously dressed anonymous workers in the building prior who worked quickly and PERFECTLY never raising any questions or alarms. There always are.
Now if there were tremendous explosions below the impact of the planes, I could see it and it could be easier to hide ina large building, but to orchestrate a controlled implosion would be impossible under the circumstances of their environment.
And steel does not melt at the temperature of jet fuel and hot fires... it loses half its structutural integrity which is more than enought to collapse a weakened structure, but I'm sure you've already read all of this and have some kind of answer for it as theorists always scramble to pick up the peices after being debunked. There always is.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
What do you believe the end goal of the New World Order is, if they were ever to achieve their ambitions, and how would they achieve it?
Of course, you know the answer. Reduced population. Genetic refinement. It dates back to the eugenics movement, very popular in the United States prior to the third reich. The Henry Fords and Prescott Bush's of the world are the guys who believe in this shit. You do know Prescott's banking firm was shut down because of the Trading with the Enemy Act? A lot of the Bush fortune was made on financing the Nazi military movement?
Reduced population(especially in third world countries) would free up the better part of humanity to take care of this planet, creating a better, more sustainable future for the generations to come. How would they impose this? Well, what would you call economic 'sanctions' imposed by the IMF? Have you found out how IMF policies towards debt relief and adopted policies work in countries...like in subsaharan africa? Do you believe that monsanto crops are safe for consumption? I suppose you believe that perpetuating a medical system whose doctrine only moderately includes preventative measures as opposed to prescribing pharmaceuticals is the way to go? We have Bill C-51 here in Canada which effectively shuts down holistic/alternative medicinal products. The Bush pre-emptive strike doctrine is one tiny example of military ideology being used despite scientific outcries over the repercussions. There's a reason why cancer rates are so high in north america. It's ok to feed kids happy meals on a day to day basis(lots of families can't afford better) yet you'll get a jail sentence for simple possession of weed. There's a lot of ways to achieve tighter control. It's not just population reduction, that's merely one step in 'their' ambitions. An EU style of world government is the most effective way to stifle discent. I'm saying that the reality around us is largely constructed to keep money with the rich and reduce the power of the people to spur actual change. I suppose you believe your dentist when he says fluoride is a must to prevent cavities. You know Toronto's had fluoride for years in the city water yet their cavities/per person is way higher than Vancouver which doesn't add fluoride. Joseph Goebbels had some interesting things to say about adding the chemical to the populations drinking water in order to placate the people and extinguish free thinking. Instead of asking me this, how about you read the power elite playbook series of articles from that website i mentioned. I think there's something like 19 in total now, so there's a bit of reading.
another example, what gave the US the right to use chemical warfare in Cambodia and Vietnam? The idea was to destroy the ability to grow food. and I mention the US because they dropped the most agent orange(supplied by monsanto) than any other country. A majority of food in your local supermarkets is GMO. Churchill was still all for using chemical weapons even after WW1. Do you think it's beyond 'them' to use chemical warfare as a means to reduce populations? blah, yeah I believe that there is little regard for human life within the inner workings of governments throughout the world, either enemy life or that of the nation's peoples. They condembed Japan for it's brutality and disregard for the Geneva Code, yet the west can act with a double standard. better stop here.
Why are we limiting ourselves to American conspiracy theories? What about Russia? China? India? Pakistan? Great Britain? Canada?
Edit: And on the Bible front, it can't be forgotten that the Bible was a text written for its time, and written for one (transforming into two) people. Its moral lessons can be extrapolated to today, but its historical implications cannot.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
Bond, what's been mentioned in this thread is only a slice of the big picture. It has nothing to do with America 'solely'. It's a world conspiracy and you should read up on it more, if only to familiarize yourself with what's being 'exposed'.
Bond, I don't think you're all that acquainted with the Bible. The Tora(old testament) was written for the nation of Israel, but it holds relevance today. The Tora is needed to understand the New Testament. Both of which have very much to do with world events, happening on a chronologically through history. I don't want to come off as flippant, I'm only pointing out that the Bible is mainly concerned in awareness of the past, present, and future. If you begin to read the New Testament you'll find that it wasn't written for 'one people' but for the whole world. "jews and gentiles alike" Once you get past the discrediting theories(they've been thoroughly refuted) which suggest Jesus is merely a collaboration of combined cultural folklore, or the theories that suggest he didn't exist at all, you'll find that it fits perfectly within a historical context of world events. In actuality, the Bible is the biggest conspiracy theory out there. Even with all the world religions(and conflicting beliefs within 'christendom') it still makes complete and utter sense. Most people know about religion through popular culture, or even through sunday sermons, which more often than not distorts the truth and only serves as a discredit to the validity of what is actually found within the Bible. I picked a Bible up about a year ago(for the first time in a long long time) and it changed my life completely. I've never been in this state of continual joy until I found the answers I was looking for in the Bible. It's all a highly sensitive subject so, well, I don't want to offend anyone. If you want to know why the early followers of Christ were persecuted in the Colloseum and then why Constantine created a church state, well it's all predicted within the Bible, and it continues to explain the world we're living in now.
Bond, I don't think you're all that acquainted with the Bible. The Tora(old testament) was written for the nation of Israel, but it holds relevance today. The Tora is needed to understand the New Testament. Both of which have very much to do with world events, happening on a chronologically through history. I don't want to come off as flippant, I'm only pointing out that the Bible is mainly concerned in awareness of the past, present, and future. If you begin to read the New Testament you'll find that it wasn't written for 'one people' but for the whole world. "jews and gentiles alike" Once you get past the discrediting theories(they've been thoroughly refuted) which suggest Jesus is merely a collaboration of combined cultural folklore, or the theories that suggest he didn't exist at all, you'll find that it fits perfectly within a historical context of world events. In actuality, the Bible is the biggest conspiracy theory out there. Even with all the world religions(and conflicting beliefs within 'christendom') it still makes complete and utter sense. Most people know about religion through popular culture, or even through sunday sermons, which more often than not distorts the truth and only serves as a discredit to the validity of what is actually found within the Bible. I picked a Bible up about a year ago(for the first time in a long long time) and it changed my life completely. I've never been in this state of continual joy until I found the answers I was looking for in the Bible. It's all a highly sensitive subject so, well, I don't want to offend anyone. If you want to know why the early followers of Christ were persecuted in the Colloseum and then why Constantine created a church state, well it's all predicted within the Bible, and it continues to explain the world we're living in now.
Actually, I am. In fact, I've studied religion since my freshman year in high school, and continue to in college.
It's interesting that you've accused myself and Professor of not being "acquainted" with the Bible, but we have never accused you of this.
I'm not even going to touch this discussion with a ten foot pole.
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
Why I threw that at Prof was because of his Obama/antichrist thing.
And I said the same about you because you said it's historical implications can't be applied to today. How much time have you spent actually reading the Bible?
You're right though, that was rude of me and based solely on one post of yours.
If you'll explain to me what you mean when you say the Bible doesn't have historical implications then I promise to be less accusatory and ignorant with my comments.
Why I threw that at Prof was because of his Obama/antichrist thing.
Its called sarcasm, or are sarcastic responses a part of the conspiracy?
Once again you quote series of questionable statements and "facts" that even if true have not been proven to be related to one another. MORE CORRELATION, ZERO PROOF OF CONSPIRACY.
And Seth, I think you apply far reaching clandestine operations to situations that are more a result of needing to pander to get re-elected or simply profiteering.
You statements about healthcare are an excellent example: There is no profit it preventative medicine, at least not as much profit as in pharmacy. Add to that incredible overhead for preventative medicine caused by malpractice law (more profiterring and political pandering to the lawyers) and you have a shortage of doctors in many western states, much less thrid world nations.
Also, people don't like going to the doctor, and they like drugs and quick fixes. Healthy diets and excercise would solve most of the problems, and there is plenty of pushing for these within the government, but people would rather take a pill.
Also, its far CHEAPER and HEALTHIER to cook meals for your family than to buy fast food. Its not about cost, its about time and knowledge. You could make an argument that the weakening of the traditional family and gender roles after the Great Depression had a role in this, but instead its a vast conspiracy, right?
Please explain flouride's effect on the populace. You made a statement about drugging a populace, how does flouride drug us? Specifically, what are its effects? Also, when water began to be flouridated, were those who made the decision aware of these ill effects? We used to use DDT, too. Are there any historical studies that prove the harmful nature of flouride?
Couldn't all of these statements helping to back your theory be better explained through simpler means based on human nature and not some convoluted and unlikely cabal of world elites?
[b]Question 3: Who makes up the global elite that are heading up this vast conspiracy? Please be specific. How do they orchestrate this massive conspiracy so quietly and speedily?
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Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
I just assumed you were using sarcasm in replace of any biblical knowledge pertaining to the subject.
In response to your pharmaceutical statements, of course it's profit driven, my point being, if they'll pass legislation on cocaine, marijuana, etc, but still push amphetamines over the counter, where's the concern for general health. People will always self destruct through diet and shitty lifestyle. I'm saying that doctors give out drugs that kill people more than car accidents. ... profiteering runs a lot of the show, hands down yes. I just don't believe it ends in the balance books. As far as cooking food being cheaper, well a lot of single moms work two/three jobs and don't have the time/education. If it's store bought food being cooked then chances are it's been processed, effectively killing the beneficial enzymes and nutrients which help keep the body's pH at a proper level. If it's fresh veggies, well organic is expensive...and many families just can't afford it. The alternative to fresh organic produce? You're right, it is time and awareness. It's GMO(the most heavily sprayed food) so most think they're giving their kids healthy carrots and cucumbers but really it isn't.The more research about what is actually healthy, you'll find that unless one is growing their own food or has the resources to buy organic, it doesn't matter how many saunas and exercise sessions one does, the body will deteriorate badly. I know you said yeah, shaking down of traditional family unit...of course it's a conspiracy instead of...well Richard Rockefeller said it himself that one of the goals after feminism was to get kids into preschools at an earlier age. Give them a good shot of hitler youth experience. Sounds severe but institutionalization of children's upbringing is one and the same. I think we agree for the most part that a lot of the negative things in society, like malnutrition, poor education, breakup of the traditional family, is all rooted in profit and greed. I just believe that these are allowed to continue by the politicians that 'we' elect into power. 20 years ago the conservative government in Canada promised that they would eliminate child poverty. During that conservative lead parliament childhood poverty actually increased and it turns out they didn't do a thing as far as investment goes to fulfill their election promise. In fact, Mulroney was best known for consolidating more money with big corp. Canadians went liberal for a long time after. It goes farther then financial payouts to politicians. It's safety for them and the people they care about. Not just money.
How about you look up on fluoride, the scientific studies which draw a correlation between the chemical and nervous system damage. I did a quick search on google 'research that correlates fluoride with nervous system damage'. Here's the first link to pop up. It looks like it's sourcing studies. http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/
You're right about DDT, asbestos, etc. Unfortunately, fluoride was being used in Nazi Germany, where the detrimental effects were first found...THEN it became popular in America to have it in the water supply.
\another similar quick search on google regarding a link between autism and vaccines,, http://www.autismwebsite.com/ARI/vac...references.htm
It hurts to think that it's even a possibility but more evidence is suggesting that the ever increasing rate of autism has an origin in the ever increasing use of vaccines...especially as vaccines are becoming required by law in certain states.
Question 3 Who makes up the global elite that are heading up this vast conspiracy? Please be specific. How do they orchestrate this massive conspiracy so quietly and speedily?
my short short, somewhat specific answer: Refer to the stock market crash that followed immediately after Waterloo. Rothschilds bought out the market for hardly a thing and it rebounded after basically giving that family control of Britain. The reason the market crashed is because a Rothschild agent got the news to britain that Napoleon had won, when in fact the French got their asses handed to them. Central bank family's like the Rockefellers. Like i mentioned a long time ago, the federal reserve has only existed since 1913. Private banking firms owning, creating, manipulating the money which supposedly belongs to the tax payers. People with ties to monetary gain, to the point where their corporate holdings 'require' them to keep a majority of the third world in poverty. I've directed you to reading those articles and I'd prefer that, and have you bring up rebuttals cuz that's where the answers are to a lot of this.
to add, about it being a massive conspiracy happening quietly and speedily...well it's something that's been happening for a long long time. Up until now conditions haven't been in place for the dissolvement of national sovereignty, coupled with the level of technology only now available to this central power. But seriously, read those Power Elite Playbook articles, then do the socratic dialogue with me.
Re: Journalist throws shoes at Bush
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