Wii's Crappy Games

[Bond]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I don't buy most of this.
I will agree on wanting to work on better hardware point.

I just think developers and publishers were all caught off guard by the Wii's success. I mean most people assumed it was a joke and wouldn't be around much. So now that it is selling like hotcakes everyone wanted to join the band as quickly as possible so we ended up with:

1) Complete and utter crap which is probably best suited for PC shovelware or to never be seen.
2) Developers assuming that button= waggle works. The Wii is at its best when you are doing stuff that probably wouldn't be as immersive as a single button press.
Beat'em ups are a good example where they just have you waving the controller to do attacks. It doesn't correlate to anything except a new form of button mashing. Compared to Medal of Honor Heroes 2 use for the sniper and rocket launcher, which add and personally destroys those weapons in other games.
3) Ports ports ports. The Cube did not have the biggest library of games so Nintendo owners know they missed out on stuff, but that isn't what we are getting ports of. We get ports of PSP and PS2 games that were long forgotten anyhow and for damn good reason.

And personally, I think a lot of people prefer to spend time on the games that the Wii hamper. Listen to shows like 1up yours where they will spend minutes mocking Gingerbread man but never really discuss Zack and Wiki or even a game like the Godfather which is one of the few ports that waggle helped improve.

Anyhow, in the New Year with a lot more quality games down its pipe, I think developers are going to need to step up to steal some of the spotlight.

Personally, I think they will continue to release crap. Have it sell poorly because it sucks and then use it to support their notion that 3rd party games don't sell well on the Wii so they don't need to put effort into it. Its a sad sad cycle.

Okay, let's take your two examples of good third party games on the Wii: Zack & Wiki and The Godfather.

Zack & Wiki has an average of 86% on GameRankings, so we can reasonably assume it's a quality title. Now, Zack & Wiki has sold 35,000 copies in North America.

The Godfather: Blackhand Edition has an average of 77% on GameRankings, so we'll call it at least an above average title. The game has sold, at most, 80,000 copies in North America.

So, those are two quality third party titles with horrible sales.

It appears as though quality and poor third party titles on the Wii both sell terribly. Perhaps it is not the fact developers are releasing poor games, but rather third party games do not sell well on the Wii, and are not supported well by Nintendo. Let's also remember the poor third party sales on the GameCube, and even the Nintendo 64. A three generation long period of poor third party sales across Nintendo consoles is not a software manufacturer issue, it's a hardware manufacturer issue.

[BreakABone]

Originally Posted by Bond

Okay, let's take your two examples of good third party games on the Wii: Zack & Wiki and The Godfather.

Zack & Wiki has an average of 86% on GameRankings, so we can reasonably assume it's a quality title. Now, Zack & Wiki has sold 35,000 copies in North America.

The Godfather: Blackhand Edition has an average of 77% on GameRankings, so we'll call it at least an above average title. The game has sold, at most, 80,000 copies in North America.

So, those are two quality third party titles with horrible sales.

It appears as though quality and poor third party titles on the Wii both sell terribly. Perhaps it is not the fact developers are releasing poor games, but rather third party games do not sell well on the Wii, and are not supported well by Nintendo. Let's also remember the poor third party sales on the GameCube, and even the Nintendo 64. A three generation long period of poor third party sales across Nintendo consoles is not a software manufacturer issue, it's a hardware manufacturer issue.

I like how you look at the smaller picture.

One Godfather Wii was a port of a game you can get on the Xbox, Pc, 360 and I believe PS2. So its been around the block a few times.

For a relatively port friendly game, I think it did well. Did better than Ps3 version released at the same time anyhow.

Now Zack and Wiki is no one fault but Capcom's. They didn't advertise the game nor had enough faith in it to produce many copies. It is still a tough game to sell and we damn sure know its not from great sales.

The Gamecube and the N64 are interesting cases, but there are 3rd party games that do well.

There is an old argument that a lot of people will throw fits about but realy. Nintendo is one of the world's top game developers so when you are making a game on their console you are fighting a 20+ year heritage and quality that many can not reach.

You don't really have that problem on the 360. Outside of a few games like Halo, there are very few first party games that do well. PGR 4 bombed pretty bad. No one wants to talk about PDZ much. Fuzion Frenzy 2 never existed. Stuff like that. So 3rd parties have an easier chance to shine. I am not saying their games aren't great, but if they put similar effort into a Wii game and gave it the type of backing, who knows.

Also, I know these are brands but Sonic and the Secret Rings, Resident Evil 4, Umbrella Chronicles, to some extent Red Steel (though I believe that is more launch game syndrome) and Guitar Hero 3 prove that there is a marketplace for 3rd parties to sell. They just need to put some goddamn effort into it.

[Bond]

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I like how you look at the smaller picture.

One Godfather Wii was a port of a game you can get on the Xbox, Pc, 360 and I believe PS2. So its been around the block a few times.

For a relatively port friendly game, I think it did well. Did better than Ps3 version released at the same time anyhow.

Now Zack and Wiki is no one fault but Capcom's. They didn't advertise the game nor had enough faith in it to produce many copies. It is still a tough game to sell and we damn sure know its not from great sales.

The Gamecube and the N64 are interesting cases, but there are 3rd party games that do well.

I looked at the smaller picture because you used those two titles are examples.

There is an old argument that a lot of people will throw fits about but realy. Nintendo is one of the world's top game developers so when you are making a game on their console you are fighting a 20+ year heritage and quality that many can not reach.

You don't really have that problem on the 360. Outside of a few games like Halo, there are very few first party games that do well. PGR 4 bombed pretty bad. No one wants to talk about PDZ much. Fuzion Frenzy 2 never existed. Stuff like that. So 3rd parties have an easier chance to shine. I am not saying their games aren't great, but if they put similar effort into a Wii game and gave it the type of backing, who knows.

Also, I know these are brands but Sonic and the Secret Rings, Resident Evil 4, Umbrella Chronicles, to some extent Red Steel (though I believe that is more launch game syndrome) and Guitar Hero 3 prove that there is a marketplace for 3rd parties to sell. They just need to put some goddamn effort into it.

This is my point.

On the Xbox 360 you're looking at about this kind of spilt: Microsoft Games Sales - 25% Third Party Games Sales - 75%

On the Wii you're looking at a (liberal) split of: Nintendo Games Sales - 50% Third Party Games Sales - 50%

There's simply a large piece of the pie for third party developers on the Xbox 360, as well as the Playstation 3. And when that is the case, and as a developer you are going to receive more backing on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 - the choice is clear.