History Repeating

[Professor S]

This is NOT GOOD. Reminds me of a series of political events that happened about 70-80 years ago...

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.js...cvqh=itn_putin

[Bond]

I really thought Putin was a good guy when he was first elected in 2000. It's appearing to be not so.

[Angrist]

Kasparov, lol.

[Typhoid]

I see nothing wrong with it.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I see nothing wrong with it.

Shocker

[Typhoid]

The fact he's going to stay somewhat in power and I see nothing wrong with him going from a Presidential seat to a Prime Minister and changing the layout of Russian Democracy has nothing to do with my stance on him, or anything of the sort. He's changing his country. Whether it for the better or the worse is yet to be decided, or even seen.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

The fact he's going to stay somewhat in power and I see nothing wrong with him going from a Presidential seat to a Prime Minister and changing the layout of Russian Democracy has nothing to do with my stance on him, or anything of the sort. He's changing his country. Whether it for the better or the worse is yet to be decided, or even seen.

As Prime Minister he would essentially be President. His power is nearly absolute as it is, to the point that his endorsement for presidency all but guarantees that mans election to the office.

There is a chance that he's moving in a pro-democracy direction, but that hasn't really been proven by his history. Most of his policies in the political arena have been to remove democratic power, not increase it, the biggest example being when he repealed the ability for individual provinces to elect their own governors. Now they are all appointed by HIM.

Now this could be an example of him cracking down on corruption, but it is a tenuous situation at best when you remove corruption with borderline fascism. I'm not saying his intent couldn't be altruitistic, and it wouldn't be the first time that a leader reluctantly took the reigns to save his people (Lord Protector comes to mind), but it is exceedingly rare that the motives are pure. Add to that the number of questioning journalists that have "disappeared" in Russia and the short term period of assassinations via radioactive poisoning, you know, from an ore that only comes from Russia, and you have plenty of reasons not to trust this man. He doesn't quietly kill political enemies, he sends obvious MESSAGES.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We'll have to wait and see if Putin has been corrupted (we know he is insanely vain). I just hope that we hear that he is not, because if he is it might already be too late considering his loyalty to China and Iran.

[manasecret]

To go more general, I can respect people who believe something and can back up their belief with good explanation and facts.

I can not respect people who believe something despite having many facts and explanations fly in the face against that belief. That turns into belief without reason.

Case in point (remember I'm generalizing), my father is a horrible driver. Everyone that has every ridden with him (and I mean everyone) has thought so. He is oblivious to the world and everyone outside of the car when he drives, which is not a good thing when driving.

Yet he still believes that he is a good driver and that everyone else is wrong or out to get him or just harping too much. But when everyone tells you you're a bad driver, at what point do you stop and think -- hey, maybe I am a bad driver, maybe I should change how I drive.

I can't respect people who can't stop and think that, hey, maybe I'm wrong about this thing I believe -- or that thing I believe -- or even this belief that goes to my very soul and I am SURE I am right about. Even the deepest held beliefs should be questioned.

Bush doesn't do that. Or as far as I can tell, for the majority of the time he doesn't do that. I don't have explicit examples. So maybe there are examples of times he has. But my guess is the times he hasn't questioned himself outweigh the times he has.

[Bond]

I've often wondered if any president ever has time to stop and smell the roses?

[Dylflon]

Originally Posted by Bond

I've often wondered if any president ever has time to stop and smell the roses?

I often find time to think while I do other things.

[Professor S]

Alright, enough off topic shenanigans. Lets concentrate on the real abuser of power, the actual topic of the thread, Vladamir Putin.

[manasecret]

Vladamir who? Oh, right.

Well maybe you could fill us less history-conscious people on which part of history exactly this is repeating. Something to do with a previous Russian guy taking over power, but which one?

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by manasecret

Vladamir who? Oh, right.

Well maybe you could fill us less history-conscious people on which part of history exactly this is repeating. Something to do with a previous Russian guy taking over power, but which one?

Actually, I was thinking more German than Russian. Remember, Hitler was an elected official before becoming dictator.

Think about Hitler's run up into power. He took a people demoralized by the first world war and the bitter international sanctions and manipulated the situation to create a nationalistic frenzy centered on himself as the leader.

The Russian people have still not recovered from communism, and its fall, and have the same sense of demoralization. Putin comes off as a strong leader, even using hegemonic masculinity to curry favor, and slowly begins the process of ventralizing power in himself and his people love him for it because they see him as a force that will create a sense of national pride again.

Is Putin another Hitler? No. There will never be another Hitler. He was the epitome of self-justified evil. But the similarities of how a democracy can turn into an oligarchy or dictatorship should be examined and remembered.

History does tend to repeat itself.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Actually, I was thinking more German than Russian. Remember, Hitler was an elected official before becoming dictator.

Think about Hitler's run up into power. He took a people demoralized by the first world war and the bitter international sanctions and manipulated the situation to create a nationalistic frenzy centered on himself as the leader.

Actually Hitler was being an opportunistic power hungry person.

Putin isn't handing a resignation in and cornering a committee to put him as the head so they won't be disbanded. He's just considering making a new system of government in which he plays a vast role. And why wouldn't he? After all it is his idea. Who would think up a new government system in which they play no role at all? You need to keep a part, and have it be major to show you have confidence in your own idea. If you say "Well, I have this new plan. But you guys go ahead and run it" people will be weary from the start because the mind behind it doesn't appear to back it with the vision he may have had.

But at this point everything is heresy. Nobody knows what his intentions actually are. Maybe he just wants a truly United Russia? Comparing him to Hitler seems unfair, even considering who he is.

History is bound to repeat itself. To think every single event that will ever happen is new is just plain silly. Comparing the present day to pre-world war times is odd, because the world isn't nearly the same place it was 60, or 90 years ago.

If Putin starts genocide, segregation, and breaks all ties with the modern world, I'll buy you a coke.

[Dylflon]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

If Putin starts genocide, segregation, and breaks all ties with the modern world, I'll buy you a coke.

Quoted for future historical purposes.