SiCKO

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

This is how I see this thread turning out, just as every other Micheal Moore thread has:


*Republicans banter about how much they hate him and how he's wrong*
*Democrats will watch the movie and give an opinion afterwards*
*Republicans banter about how much they hate him and how he's wrong*
*Democrats banter about how biased Republicans are being*
*Republicans pray to Bush*
*Democrats banter about how they want to see the movie*
*Republicans banter about how much they hate him and how he's wrong, and why every Democrat is thusly and subsequently wrong because of Micheal Moore*

This is more how I see you viewing conservatives on this site, and its actually a sign that you might have a slight mental disease, seeing how most of your "observations" rarely happen in political debates on GT.

1) We've gone well beyond hate of Michael Moore. I more feel sorry for him as he's kind of a national joke right now. His tactics and deceptions have been widely exposed and no one expects the truth from him, just his biased opinion. He's failed as an opinion maker, simply because those that love him already are convinced he's always right, and those that have heard about all his trickery will never believe ANYTHING he says. Basically, he just soaks liberal for money so they can pat themselves on the back and say "See? We're right!. I'm a good person!"

I don't hate Michael Moore and his fans. I feel sorry for them.

2) GT Cons "pray" to Bush? Do you even read any of our posts? Most of us don't even like Bush, we just support the war on terror and his tax policy (actually, I'm in favor of a consumption tax). Normally I would post all of Bush's decisions I hate at this point, but I've done that before and that would require you to first read them and second, recognize that as my genuine opinion, so why bother?.

3) As for Moore being wrong. Well, thats been proven too many times to count. The problem is a Moore conversation usually goes like this:

*GT Cons post the pages and pages of evidence of Moore using trick photography, knowingly ommitting contrary evidence, editing footage to give false evidence and staging his scenes.*
*Moore fans absorb none of this and continue to support him regardless of the lies because "he's doing good".

So really, whats the point in arguing about Moore anymore? Whats the point in REPOSTING any of the evidence? There is no point. And at this point Moore has proven himself to be wholly irrelevant anyway, so I'm happy to just sit back and laugh at the whole thing.

Have fun guys.

[Fox 6]

Man, we should just call this place

Flaming political-argument-tron 'o' rama Tavern.

[Bond]

I don't really think the discussions that we have on this forum concerning politics are any different than the same conversation that goes on on television and other media outlets. The population is just very polarized right now and that's how it is.

But maybe the other problem is that I'm the only one who has seen the movie.

[Teuthida]

I did as well, as mentioned in the other movie thread. I liked it.

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Professor S

This is more how I see you viewing conservatives on this site, and its actually a sign that you might have a slight mental disease, seeing how most of your "observations" rarely happen in political debates on GT.

1) We've gone well beyond hate of Michael Moore. I more feel sorry for him as he's kind of a national joke right now. His tactics and deceptions have been widely exposed and no one expects the truth from him, just his biased opinion. He's failed as an opinion maker, simply because those that love him already are convinced he's always right, and those that have heard about all his trickery will never believe ANYTHING he says. Basically, he just soaks liberal for money so they can pat themselves on the back and say "See? We're right!. I'm a good person!"

I don't hate Michael Moore and his fans. I feel sorry for them.

2) GT Cons "pray" to Bush? Do you even read any of our posts? Most of us don't even like Bush, we just support the war on terror and his tax policy (actually, I'm in favor of a consumption tax). Normally I would post all of Bush's decisions I hate at this point, but I've done that before and that would require you to first read them and second, recognize that as my genuine opinion, so why bother?.

3) As for Moore being wrong. Well, thats been proven too many times to count. The problem is a Moore conversation usually goes like this:

*GT Cons post the pages and pages of evidence of Moore using trick photography, knowingly ommitting contrary evidence, editing footage to give false evidence and staging his scenes.*
*Moore fans absorb none of this and continue to support him regardless of the lies because "he's doing good".

So really, whats the point in arguing about Moore anymore? Whats the point in REPOSTING any of the evidence? There is no point. And at this point Moore has proven himself to be wholly irrelevant anyway, so I'm happy to just sit back and laugh at the whole thing.

Have fun guys.

i didn't even read your post.
My post was in entire sarcasm and light-heartedness.

Captian over-the-top strikes again.

[BlueFire]

Originally Posted by Typhoid

i didn't even read your post.
My post was in entire sarcasm and light-heartedness.

Captian over-the-top strikes again.

not that I'm taking sides or I actually care, but I find it hard to believe that you posted that and weren't expecting some sort of reply or challenge...

And you probably read that, too.

[Dylflon]

I saw it a couple weeks back and thouroughly enjoyed it.

The main point of this movie is that the American Healthcare system is in need of reform.

This sadly is not what people argue about about this film. Arguments are mostly centered on Moore's past shenanigans, and finding slight fault in certain statistics given in the film.



Here are the undeniable facts:

The American healthcare system is f*cked. Lobbyists have climbed so far into bed with congress and the current adminstration that they can get away with murder. And they're not jsut in be with the republicans, it's the democrats too. Up to and including Hillary Clinton who before was the most vocal person promoting universal healthcare during the Clinton administration.

Health insurance companies take advantage of the general populace and are very selective in who they will actually help. If someone is even the slightest bit at risk of having medical complications, many MO's will not provide insurance that is anywhere close to adequate. Also, the drug companies are in on the scheme charging ridiculous amounts of money for drugs that are dirt cheap elsewhere.



I could go on.

One of the main problems with America is that the people who the public chooses to represent them, sell the people out. To drug lobbyists, gun lobbyists, tobacco lobbyists, etc. These people have cart blanche to do whatever they want because they give money to the right people.



Politcal off topic rant:

At the moment, it is a country where the corporation is given more benefits than the average person who has to grow up in a world of grossly sub-standard public education, outragious medical fees if god forbid you were to get sick, a government that is bearing down on rights of privact and free speech, and streets filled with nothing more than corporate chains. A world where governments can start illegal wars because they say that dirt poor people in the middle east are threatening your freedom. Thank god they've defended your freedom to pick what fast food chain you want to eat at, or what truck to drive, or what MO to take in the ass from when you develop an illness.

North America is going down the drain and the rest of the world is soon to follow.



anyways, I liked the movie and thought it brought up many valid points worth considering wheter or not you're democrat/republican/moore supporter/moore hater.

[Professor S]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=2

This pretty much sums it up.

[Dylflon]

I found Sanjay's arguments to be quite weak actually. His argument was about how uneducated people would take him calling other systems "free health care".

He actually did explain in the movie about how it is paid for in taxes. And he also interviewed people who said that they wouldn't give it up for the world despite having to pay for it in taxes.

My frustration with the anti-Moore demographic is their immediate willingness to dismiss anything he has to say.


Let me ask you Professor, and this may be hard for you.

But do you believe that anything that Moore talks about in his documentaries has nay credibility?

[Bond]

Let me just make a few quick points here.

Yes, the American healthcare system has quite a few probems, but so does every country's healthcare system. There is a reason why an enormous amount of foreigners travel each year to the United States for thousands of health procedures. Think universal healthcare is the answer? Examine United Kingdom's and France's huge healthcare debt.

The biggest problem with our healthcare system is Medicare/Medicaid. When a patient goes to a hospital, one would think the government would pay their entire bill, right? Wrong. The government only covers around thrity to forty cents on the dollar. That means the hospital and/or insurance company must cover that left over sixty to seventy cents. Curious as to why healthcare is so expensive? That's why.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Dylflon

I found Sanjay's arguments to be quite weak actually. His argument was about how uneducated people would take him calling other systems "free health care".

He actually did explain in the movie about how it is paid for in taxes. And he also interviewed people who said that they wouldn't give it up for the world despite having to pay for it in taxes.

My frustration with the anti-Moore demographic is their immediate willingness to dismiss anything he has to say.


Let me ask you Professor, and this may be hard for you.

But do you believe that anything that Moore talks about in his documentaries has nay credibility?

I don't find that question difficult at all, and in fact I've talked about how Moore has had valid arguments in his movies. He has a good amount of valid information. The problem is that he is so willing to mix valid arguments with deception and biased, subjective opinion.

You get frustrated by those who just dismiss Moore, but Moore brings this upon himself by using severe exagerrations, deceptive editting, lies of omission, etc. Its common sense that if you discover that at documentarian is rigging scenes and playing with facts, that you will discount his films as false. If truth is immediately followed up by lies, how can you tell the difference and why would you believe anythign he says? Moore claims to be a "documentarian", but by definition his films have absolutely nothing to do with film journalism for the simple fact that he starts with a conclusion and then films to support that conclusion. There is no room for a balanced stance or even a contrary opinion to be presented as anything but insulting.

Its his slavery to his agenda that makes him irrelevant. There was no reason to deceive in Bowling for Columbine. NONE. Its not hard to make a claim that guns do more harm than good in the US. But the truth is not good enough for Moore. He must create illusions of absolute right and absolute wrong. The greatness of his good cause, and the dastardly actions of those that dare dissagree. This same demagoguery (sp?) can be seen in other films such as An Inconvenient Truth, which has also had many of its undisputed facts, well, roundly disputed. But it also has truth, but that gets drowned by its exposed lack of balance.

As a liberal you should roundly REJECT Michael Moore and those that present bias as truth. The more he champions causes close to your heart, the more irrelevant he makes the arguments for those causes.

The healthcare system in the US is flawed. But exagerrating its flaws, and exagerrating the greatness of other flawed socialistic heathcare systems doesn't exactly prove his case. It just gives more reasons to discount anything Michael Moore says as biased nonense, regardless of any validity.

I've explained this before, but once again I find myself drug into the role of someone who repeats himself to those who don't care to listen in the first place.

Prof Out... for real this time.