PS3 Survey

[DeathsHand]

I doubt this is a widespread issue... But one of the units a local store had as a demo broke 4 hours after they set it up...

Another issue I guess would be that a majority of people who ran out to buy the system are probably going to sell them on eBay...

I dislike it when people do that... My quest to own the Collector's Edition of Burning Blade (to sit it next to my pretty CE of WoW) seems to hit a wall due to the fact that people saw WoW CE's selling for $300+ on eBay when it first came out, and decided they'd pre-order as many Burning Blade CEs as they possibly could so they can keep one and sell the rest (or sell them all)...

And that's not an item you can just "wait to come back in stock like a normal person" for...

Supply and demand, etc... Doesn't mean people who wanted one (but aren't going to spend the insane amount on eBay) will walk away with a big smile on their face thinking "There's always next shipment" (especially when there is no next shipment)...

People are jackasses... Both the ones who sell such items on eBay, and the ones that will pay that much for them...

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by DeathsHand

People are jackasses... Both the ones who sell such items on eBay, and the ones that will pay that much for them...

I don't get why people still feel this way, though I don't have an unbiased view as I am one of the jackass eBayers.

Okay, you didn't mention PS3 specifically. But even for collector's items, these aren't items you need. Their collector's items for a reason -- i.e. they're worth a lot of money specifically because they are collector's items. You can still play the game.

As for PS3 (Perfect Stu, you're the only one that has made a post against eBayers), can you make a clear statement of why you think eBayers are in the wrong?

The way I see it, all of these eBayers (including myself) are merely providing a nearly identical service as all the Best Buys and Gamestops and Walmarts out there. No one complains that a cold, soulless thing known as a company makes a profit on the PS3, but for some reason it's a horrendous crime when a regular ol' human spends three nights of his own time and life out in the cold to do the exact same.

If you sell on eBay, you're providing a service and that's that.

And say you waited in line for a PS3 just to keep it for yourself while the people behind you in line weren't able to get it; that's selfish as well. If one were truly unselfish you would give up your place in line to the next person.

Yes I know this is armchair economics and morals here. Nevertheless, I am curious as to people's (clear) opinions and arguments on this.

[Perfect Stu]

Providing a service that Wal Mart or Best Buy is? Give me a break.

Look, I understand business. I respect the concept of an open market...it's fantastic. But I think it's morally wrong to step in and be a completely unnecessary middle man that (contrary to what you might think) provides no service whatsoever. If nobody sold PS3's on eBay, people would be able to buy those same systems the same way (online order), or to pick one up in store. So just to step in and drive up the price for the sake of driving up the price is not something I can agree with.

[manasecret]

Hmmm the "unnecessary middleman" is the best way I've heard it put.

However, I disagree that we don't provide a service (despite what you may think).

Start with the facts: the supply of PS3s far and away outweighs the demand from gamers/parents. So continuing from that, the fact is that any gamer/parent that wants a PS3 is going to have to camp out for a day or two or even more. Even if you cut out all of the eBayers, maybe you're cutting off a day of waiting. So no matter what, if a gamer/parent wants a PS3, he/she will have to wait in line for one day at least and possibly several more. Those are the facts (let me know if you disagree).

Some people can't wait those one or two days or more in line for whatever reason, such as they can't miss work, they don't want to wait in the cold, they simply would rather pay more money than waste their time camping -- whatever. However, they still want a PS3.

So instead of waiting in line (which assuming the facts are true, they would have to do even if there were zero eBayers) essentially they are paying me (or another eBayer) to wait in line for them. That's the service.

And from my armchair economics combined with econ 101, a service is a perfectly viable product to sell.

Certainly, some gamers who were willing and/or able to wait in line are then unable to get a PS3 at face value because of eBayers (or at least, as early as they desired). But what makes their desires any more important than the desires of someone who can't or is unwilling to wait so long in line, but who is able to pay more?

To digress, I guess the fact is I'm going to eBay as many PS3s as I can no matter what. I need money, and personally I say boohoo to any gamer that can't get a PS3 on day one. I guess that makes me a selfish bastard.

[DeathsHand]

This reminds me of the theater cleanliness debate... There's no wiggle room, it all just has to do with people's personal moral... morals... Moralically speaking...

Some people say they're not comfortable waiting in line just to get a PS3 to sell to some dumbass on eBay...
Others would call those who wouldn't take advantage of such a profitable opportunity the true dumbasses...

But eh... When it comes to this debate, Stu is doing a better job than I ever could so I'll just shut up...
"There's a reason scalping sports tickets is illegal..."
"unnecessary middle man"
Good show...
I just want my Burning Blade CE :<

[manasecret]

Originally Posted by DeathsHand

This reminds me of the theater cleanliness debate... There's no wiggle room, it all just has to do with people's personal moral... morals... Moralically speaking...

Some people say they're not comfortable waiting in line just to get a PS3 to sell to some dumbass on eBay...
Others would call those who wouldn't take advantage of such a profitable opportunity the true dumbasses...

But eh... When it comes to this debate, Stu is doing a better job than I ever could so I'll just shut up...
"There's a reason scalping sports tickets is illegal..."
"unnecessary middle man"
Good show...
I just want my Burning Blade CE :<

I was going to say before, but didn't because it's kinda beside my point. Ticket scalping isn't illegal everywhere (in the U.S. scalping laws vary state by state), and in fact many businesses are ticket brokers, which are essentially scalpers.

And I think you're right, I'm not going to change my opinion and I doubt I'll change anyone else's. But I am curious of others' opinions and whether I can refute them, for myself anyway.

BTW, DeathsHand, I was on "your" side of the theater cleanliness, and I thought the other side (led mainly by you there, Professor S) was completely way off base and being complete dicks about leaving their trash around. Now that you say this argument is similar to that one, and now that I'm on the opposite side of the argument, I guess that makes me a complete dick. :wheresthescratchestchinsmilie:

[Professor S]

Our tech department at work spent most of today bidding on PS3's under false identities. They told me they had pushed a bunch of auctions over $10,000 just to jerk around with people that wait in line only to sell them.

[DeathsHand]

Originally Posted by manasecret

I guess that makes me a complete dick. :wheresthescratchestchinsmilie:

Hey now, everyone has a dickish tendency or two.
One of mine would be labeling so many people as dicks.

But eh, whatever... I saw a hilarious clip on the news of hundreds of people stampeding towards a store as it opened... Hundreds of people for something like 20 PS3s...

It's the kind of thing that would make my dad and his type think even lower of the gamer types and their dag blasted gaming devices, acting like such animals to get their hands on the newest, shiniest one.
When in reality, it's probably safe to say that a majority of the people charging at the store are doing so because it's basically like offering $1,000+ to the first 20 people who make it inside (alive)...
That's $1,000+ they can spend on Mexicans to handle their landscaping, South American's to take care of their children, or simply put towards obtaining eternal happiness...

Since when is gaming all about rushing retail outlets to land some easy cash? It used to be about young men in tights striking down big lizards with the aid of their faerie allies, and watching as they explode into a plume of rainbow dust...
What happened to those days, mana? What happened to those days?

Originally Posted by DarkMaster

Burning Crusade

D'oh!

[DarkMaster]

Originally Posted by DeathsHand

I just want my Burning Blade CE :<

Burning Crusade

[Perfect Stu]

Originally Posted by manasecret

To digress, I guess the fact is I'm going to eBay as many PS3s as I can no matter what. I need money, and personally I say boohoo to any gamer that can't get a PS3 on day one. I guess that makes me a selfish bastard.

It's not like that, man. I dont judge people for doing something like this...that's their business. But I don't respect it, and I think of it as more exploitation than capitalizing on an opportunity. Tom-ay-to, Tom-ah-to. To be perfectly honest, I don't think anyone should be allowed to camp outside of a store. If the demand is huge, sell preorders far in advance and just meet the preorder requests until they run out and you can begin stocking shelves.

I won't accuse you of doing something you shouldn't...what I'm saying is, I don't agree with it. I think it's wrong. You're just as entitled to say its not.