Socialism in Action

[Xantar]

I'm still waiting to hear why this thread is titled "socialism in action." From what the minorities in France are saying, the riots don't have anything to do with their country's universalized health care, its tax code, its distribution of property or any of that. They're angry because they think (and probably with good reason) that the white majority is racist. They point to the fact that even educated Muslims can't get a job in France because of all the snobbishness. A good quote I heard that sums it up: "If you're poor and your father doesn't speak perfect French, you have no chance."

It's deplorable, but I don't see where socialism fits in.

P.S. I'm no socialist myself. Being the son of refugees from a socialist country doesn't make me very inclined to be a fan of Marx. I'm just asking for a bit of clarification.

[Professor S]

I will admit to being a bit hyperbolic in my title, mainly to gain a little steam for the traffic (I am prone to do so, if you haven't figured that out ), but my feelings about socialism still fit in even if they shouldn't be the main focus of this particular thread. Also, France insn't a truly socialist nation, as you know, but they have adopted many socialist constructs.

In my observation socialism or socialist constructs cause people to be dependent on the government for their livelihood (in a general sense), whether it be a welfare system, healthcare and so on and so forth. As we we all know, you can't depend on the government to run anything right, so if you have to depend on it, it will fail you.

A lot of my feelings on the unemployement rates of France, Germany and others don't come from the article I posted, but of my belief that socialism breeds abuse by leaders and apathy by constituents. Most people want to work for a living, but there are also a good amount that will not do a damn thing if you don't make it necessary for them to do so.

A people become dependent on the government, the government fails them and the people get angry that they aren't being taken care of the way the government promised.

P.S. - I am actually a very big fan of Marx... as a social and political critic. The observations in his books were revolutionary (pun unintended but I'll still take it ) and very accurate. His solutions, though, were misguided to say the least and have been misinterpreted to the point that literally millions have died.

[Neo]

I thought this whole thing was because of those two dumbsh$ts that ran from the police and got themselves electrocuted.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Neo

I thought this whole thing was because of those two dumbsh$ts that ran from the police and got themselves electrocuted.

Do you think that the fact that two idiots ran from the police and got themselves electrocuted would start riots in 300+ cities if there weren't other, more important factors involved? The electrocutuions were just an excuse for violence... not the cause.

As for free healthcare... I'll pass. I've heard too many horror stories and seen for myself (girlfriend's father's heart transplant) how badly government run healthcare works. I hate waiting 2 hours in a waiting room for my appointment, much less two months.

[Xantar]

Every system, whether public or private, will have its horror stories, and I think complaints about universal health care systems can be a bit exaggerated. In any case, even if there are waiting lists, I don't think you will find many Canadians or British or Germans who would rather have our system.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Do you think that the fact that two idiots ran from the police and got themselves electrocuted would start riots in 300+ cities if there weren't other, more important factors involved?

No but with French people you never know.

[The Duggler]

Originally Posted by Professor S

Do you think that the fact that two idiots ran from the police and got themselves electrocuted would start riots in 300+ cities if there weren't other, more important factors involved? The electrocutuions were just an excuse for violence... not the cause.

In fact the electrocutions of the 2 immigrants was the cause.

Yes there's other factors that fuels this conflict, but the electrocutions was the spark that started it all.

After the electrocutions, a group of immigrant started a small riot claiming that the police was responsible for the death of the 2 young man. Shortly after that France's interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, called the people responsible for the riot, rabblers. And I think that's when it got out of hands.

Calling those people rabblers was certainly a dumb thing to in that situation, but I certainly agree with the term used.

[Neo]

For Sale: One French Army Rifle, never used, dropped once.

[The Duggler]

What's with the stupid jokes Neo?

Upset with the fact that they didn't join the US in the war on terror?

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Neo

For Sale: One French Army Rifle, never used, dropped once.

That was the most horribly placed joke ever.


I remember I got (what I think was) the first DD for making a joke about a puppy once.

Surely a stereotypical joke about an entire nation of people isnt better than a joke about a puppy.

[Fox 6]

Originally Posted by Neo

For Sale: One French Army Rifle, never used, dropped once.

Stolen joke from Full Metal Jacket.

[Professor S]

Originally Posted by Nitram

In fact the electrocutions of the 2 immigrants was the cause.

Yes there's other factors that fuels this conflict, but the electrocutions was the spark that started it all.

After the electrocutions, a group of immigrant started a small riot claiming that the police was responsible for the death of the 2 young man. Shortly after that France's interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, called the people responsible for the riot, rabblers. And I think that's when it got out of hands.

Calling those people rabblers was certainly a dumb thing to in that situation, but I certainly agree with the term used.

I think you missed my point. I was concentrating on the 300+ cities, most of which couldn't give two craps about the two electrocutions. If you want to play semantics, go right ahead, but even Chirac has admitted that the reason for this wave of violence is about social inequality, not two immigrants.

There is always the straw that breaks the camels back...