What religion are you?

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Bond

Who are you to say what Jesus should or should not do?

So then your implying that Jesus wont let us into heaven if we dont believ in him? Now, do you mean believe in him in the sense as the son of God, or as a person. Because Muslims believe Jesus was real....he just wasn't the son of God.

That would be a pretty doucheriffic thing to do.

Now, why would Jesus, a person who loves all man and died for our sins, not want us to be saved eternally and go to heaven for having our own piece of mind? Im sure Jeus would condone that. Im sure Jesus would condone not being a sheep and following the herd.


But as the cake song says : "Sheep go to heaven, Goats go to hell."

Figure the meaning out for yourselves.

[DarkMaster]

Originally Posted by dropCGCF

Religion is just something weak people ned to have so they have a reason to exist without making something out of their lives.

Harrassing people with religious beliefs is just something weak people need to do to make them feel better about the fact that they don't believe in anything beyond that which is blatantly obvious or factual.

My question for you is; why not believe in a God? Why not have hope, or faith in something good?

[dropCGCF]

Originally Posted by DarkMaster

Harrassing people with religious beliefs is just something weak people need to do to make them feel better about the fact that they don't believe in anything beyond that which is blatantly obvious or factual.

My question for you is; why not believe in a God? Why not have hope, or faith in something good?

I believe in a higher power. It just doesn't control me through a book.

[Joeiss]

Originally Posted by dropCGCF

So you're counting money. I thought the Bible said that money and greed go hand in hand? Surely such a religious man would be eager to sell all his posessions and live day by day. Oh wait, that's not convenient. I don't see yoiu giving the money you provide a greedy ISP to a poor, starving child, do I?

You mother ****er. How dare you question my commitment to God and to helping others. If you really want to know, I help out at a local foodbank every weekend that I can get home from university. I will definitely be there this upcoming Thanksgiving weekend. I go to church, I donate to the church, and I donate money to charities that I choose. Do not ever question what I will do when I graduate university. First of all, I want to get into a not for profit business and be there accountant. And if that doesn't work out, who cares? How about I become a the CFO for a huge company? Yeah, how about I make millions of dollars? Yeah, even if I do, I will never forget who I believe in, and I will never stop helping out those who are less fortunate.

You really pissed me off with that comment man.

Originally Posted by dropCGCF

A man once greater than me said;
"I'd like to become a Christian, but alas I have never met one." the true believers, I would hope you agree, are actually practicing their faith rather than preaching it. It's what I do every day.

Well first of all, a Christian is one who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Second of all, nobody on Earth is perfect. There are many Christians who do great things in the name of God. There are many Christians who sin.

But you know what? If these people realize that they sinned, and tell that to God, they will go to heaven. Therefore, they are still Christians.

[dropCGCF]

Originally Posted by Joeiss

You mother ****er. How dare you question my commitment to God and to helping others. If you really want to know, I help out at a local foodbank every weekend that I can get home from university. I will definitely be there this upcoming Thanksgiving weekend. I go to church, I donate to the church, and I donate money to charities that I choose. Do not ever question what I will do when I graduate university. First of all, I want to get into a not for profit business and be there accountant. And if that doesn't work out, who cares? How about I become a the CFO for a huge company? Yeah, how about I make millions of dollars? Yeah, even if I do, I will never forget who I believe in, and I will never stop helping out those who are less fortunate.

You really pissed me off with that comment man.

I aplologize, it was wrong of me to attack what I didn't know, I should have phrased my point differently. What I'm trying to say is, fundamentally, you're supposed to do EVERYTHING you can to help others. Not just what's comfortable. And Christianity is supposed to be about following every teaching or doing of Jesus. I know some self-professed "Christians" who do nothing of the sort. It's kind of like they use it as a veil to cover up their mistakes. Sin all during the week, go to church, get your slice of Christ, be set for another week. That kind of belief is what pisses me off.

[Joeiss]

Thanks for the apology man. I was super pissed at what you said, haha.

Anyways, I am not sure if my priest made this up or not, but one time he said:

"John didn't go to hell for what he did on Sunday. He went to hell for what he did on Monday."

[Typhoid]

Originally Posted by Joeiss

Second of all, nobody on Earth is perfect.

Lets go back to 3 people. I shall name them.

1. Mother Theresa.(sp?)
2. Jesus Christ.
3. Pope John Paul(sp?) (whichever one it is now)


There are probably more, but meh.

What horrific unperfect things have these people done?

[Joeiss]

I meant other than Jesus, lol.

And you can sin in your thoughts too. NOBODY IS PERFECT (except for Jesus).

[Canyarion]

Originally Posted by Joeiss

"John didn't go to hell for what he did on Sunday. He went to hell for what he did on Monday."

Ha I like that one.
This is how it goes so often, people go to church on sunday, but forget God the rest of the week.

And I want to explain again that the bible teaches that there are 3 things you have to do to get 'saved': belief, knowledge, actions.

People who only simply believe it, but don't act like it, are wrong. People who live a good life, but refuse to believe in God (when given the chance), are wrong too.

And the Pope isn't free of sin, far from it.

[CamFu]

Originally Posted by dropCGCF

Religion is just something weak people ned to have so they have a reason to exist without making something out of their lives.

dropCGCF, don't think I'm just picking on you here. I've quoted you a couple of times, but by no means am I trying to single you out here. This comment here is made by so many "non-believers". I think I already said this before in this post, but I'm going to say it again.

Religious people aren't weak people. They are trying to juggle two goals in their life. They have a common goal, a goal that is harder to obtain then any non Religious person has. Almost everybody in this world (religious or not) wants to be successful in one way or another. Be it rich with money, family, love, fame, worldly objects, etc... It's what ever their hearts desire. But when you do not believe in god, this is where your goals stop. We believe there is something else out there judging us. So we can't just be single minded think we have achieved everything when we get to our worldly goals. We have come to an understanding that there is more to this life then what is put in front of us. And yes, we want to spend eternity happy. Who doesn't? Doesn't matter what you think eternity is (be it an eternal sleep, or reigning with your God).

So here we are, trying to achieve a greater goodness. And people think we are weak? How so, we have to live up to so much more then what man has put before us. Even if we are rich beyond our wildest dreams, that doesn’t mean anything in the afterlife. We still have to live a Christian life to live with God. That is not weak, by any means. It’s actually more stressful because there is more on our plate then with non believers.

Now for people that stick behind that argument that God doesn’t exist because Science doesn’t prove it. What has to be understood is that God created this earth (and universe, solar system, galaxy, etc…) and with this earth certain rules apply. Over the years, man has become smarter and is now able to understand our surroundings. So what we believed that the earth was flat. God never said that in the bible (not trying to hide behind the bible, I just don’t want people saying that some Catholic in some far away time said that is what God told him, all men have flaws). But through science we learned that the earth isn’t flat. Same goes for the earth being the center of the universe. Anything that God does on this earth can be explained through science. Why, because God set these rules and he won’t break them. If he did, he wouldn’t be perfect. So all the miracles that have happened through the times, I believe that science will be able to explain why that happened. As for the big bang theory, that is all it is. Everybody wants FACTS when it comes to religion, but they are willing to take a theory from scientists. The same goes with evolution, just another scientific theory. Remember how we used to believe the Earth was flat? Those where the scholars at the time, telling us it was true. But they were proven wrong. So how can people that only believe in science be so sure that’s how civilization came to be? Through an unproven fact… a theory.

Fact, that seems to be the big word in this discussion. Everybody that doesn’t believe in God or the bible wants facts. That is good; you don’t want to be running after some street preacher because he sounds like he knows what he is talking about. Next thing you know, you will be living through his eyes and giving him all your money. Yikes! It is impossible to show you facts on the bible and God. There is no reason for me explaining why we can’t show you facts on God, you probably already know them.

This is how I look at things. If you believe in God and live a good life, that is great. If you don’t believe in God and live a good life, that is great. Just as long as you a good person (not a menace to society), I’m happy for you. I’m not going to throw my beliefs on you. I’m happy to discuss them, as long as you keep an open mind about things and I will do the same. All insults are left at the door.

Originally Posted by dropCGCF

Sin all during the week, go to church, get your slice of Christ, be set for another week. That kind of belief is what pisses me off.

Yep, I agree with this comment.

[mickydaniels]

Originally Posted by Canyarion

Didn't they recently discover that Jesus really lived? They found the tomb of his brother where it said 'XXXX, brother of Jesus'. In that time, you NEVER tell who your brother was. There was no point, unless he was a VERY special person.

Anyway, I don't need THAT proof. But a lot of things are happening that the bible predicted.

Ummmmmmmmmm.., they discovered that that tombstone was really a fake.

[dropCGCF]

Originally Posted by CamFu

This comment here is made by so many "non-believers".

I believe, but not in the same thing as antyone else. I don't think a higher power can be told about fully in one book.

Religious people aren't weak people. They are trying to juggle two goals in their life.

I didn't mean that all religious people are weak. I believe they just waste their efforts trying to follow a specific doctrine.

It’s actually more stressful because there is more on our plate then with non believers.

I don't think so. I think me, the "non believers" have a harder time. You, and most people in the world, are confident that you're the ones going to heaven, no? I have to deal with people telling me how I am banished to hell for the rest of eternity because I don't believe what they do. It's really fun to have people tell you that you're going to hell because you neglect to do one thing that some murderers do. They're saved, I'm not. That's messed up. I'm not a bad person by any means. Some of the best people I know also do not believe in a God, they do acts for their common man out of pure compassion.

Through an unproven fact… a theory.

Catholicism must also be a theory because it has faults. I don't think the church accepted the fact (officially) that our solar system is heliocentric until the 1980's. The Church's beliefs are theoris as well. They have not been proven, and will not until the Judgement Day under Christian belief, so all religious beliefs must also be a theory since we cannot fully prove or disprove them.

Fact

People beleve blindly without facts. Even when the doctrine is untrue. If you believe the Bible is the word of God (making an enthemyme here), is the Torah not? People believe that. Therefore, then they believe something that is wrong, right? Fact helps back up a theory.

This is how I look at things. If you believe in God and live a good life, that is great. If you don’t believe in God and live a good life, that is great. Just as long as you a good person (not a menace to society), I’m happy for you. I’m not going to throw my beliefs on you.

But Joeiss said that even if I were a good person, if I did not believe in Jesus, I would be banned from the gates of heaven. Is that right? Should I not get the same "holy destination" as people who were mass murderers and repented? I haven't hurt anyone. I don't deserve hell. If this is how it is, I'd rather be a good man and burn in the firey pits of hell that be an evil man who repents and has eternal life.

As for Bond...

Originally Posted by Bond

Who are you to say what Jesus should or should not do?

Who is Jesus to decide MY fate? And don't say he's God or the Son Of God, because you have no proof.

The creation stories aren't truth, but simple stories to explain how we came to be.

But Joeiss said, and I quote:

Originally Posted by Joeiss

I want to get why people don't understand that the Bible is not symbolism.

Do I see an argument?

[Joeiss]

I only said that because you said the opposite. You believe it is symbolism, and I don't. I don't think either of us will hange our stance.

[Canyarion]

I'm with Joe here, I believe the bible is litteral. Well except of course the stories that Jesus tells, but he really tells them as examples so....

[Typhoid]

These arguments are pointless.

When we (agnostic/athiest) ask the religious people questions, they just end up quoting the Bible, or going back to something about the bible. Like a safety net or something. They cannot encompass a life without a higher power, because they have been brought up with it.

We cannot encompass a life with their God, because we have not grown up with it(for the most part)

Which brings me back to religion being Geographical.

Christianity is basically a North American and European thing.
Muslim is Middle Eastern.
Shintoism is mainly Asian.
Buddhist is Asian.


Do you notice something here?

Each continent basically has its own friggin religion. And dont even start with Africa being Christian, because its being forced on them, they have no choice at all.

Look at it this way, ( if your religious) take your beliefs right now. Think about them. Now think if you would think of those beliefs if you were born in Iraq with 2 Iraqi parents, who also have Iraqi parents. I dont think you would be all too Christian. You wouldnt read the bible. Or believe in your now form of God.

How many Middle Eastern born people are Christian?
How many North Amrican people (meaning white and black, not middle eastern or asian immigrants) are born Shintoist or Muslim?

I agree with everything Drop has said. Every single word...exept the part where he pissed off Joiess.

Faith is blind. There is no proof to a god existing. And dont say "the Bible is our proof" because No, it isnt. Prove to me that the bible wasnt written by people hopped up on shrooms or weed or hallucinagens. Prove it wasnt written by crazy people. Prove it wasnt the Idea of a king to get people to not start an uprisal. You cant.

And yes, what about the Torah? There truly cannot be 2 literal Holy Books. But wait...the Torah was written before the Bible, so it must be truer than the Bible.

Religion has become a fad. Thats all it is. To some of you it gives hope and meaning in your tiny insignificant miniscule lives that after your meaningless existance there is something more for you. But to others it is a fad. Look at California. Look how many people have been "converted" to Buddhist, and those other Asian religions. Does this mean that most of the upper rich class of California believs in it?

How many rock stars and singers and actors, directers, stage hands whatever firstly thank god when they win an award? Now...yuo cannot tell me that every single one of these people believs in god. No, they dont. Its good for face value.

I dont think Jesus, or God or whoever apparently decides if we go to heaven or not, would care if you belive in what they tell you to believe in. I believ as long as you follow the 10 commandments, your fine. And dont say "oh, so you are religious!" Because no, the 10 commandments are friggin common sense.

I believ if there is a god, he wouldnt care if we think hes real or not, as long as we are a good person. I mean, if he is real and we go to heaven, he would have all of eternity to rub it in our faces right?

But really, what kind of lord would care if you believe in him or not? It sounds like one of those attention starved toddlers that will piss you off unless you pay attention to them and constantly look at them. And if you dont pay attention to that toddler, he will "put you through hell" and destroy things in your house. Anything to get your attention.

And one last question, what religion were the people who said the world was going to end in the year 2000?


EDIT: Basically Religion is an organised cult. Thats all it is. And Holy wars, to me, are the funniest things ever. Its a fight to see whos imagionary friend is better.

But yes, I believe there is a higher power, but not God, in any form. Like Drop said, I dont think any book, or our minds can encompass him. We can barely encompass our own existance.