Japan legalizes stem cell research!

Typhoid · 07-24-2004, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret

Which I agree with abortion being legal.

Whats this? But wait....

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret

I believe it's wrong. I'm against abortion.

Make up your mind and dont cantradict yourself so you can hold a propor position in an argument.

I know i know.

Crash · 07-24-2004, 02:36 AM

the last thing the world needs, is to have people live even longer than they are... people are already living 30 years longer than they were 40 years ago....

talk about over population!

Jonbo298 · 07-24-2004, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash

the last thing the world needs, is to have people live even longer than they are... people are already living 30 years longer than they were 40 years ago....

talk about over population!

But in 30-40 years we will be in hover cars and taking daily trips to the moon and harvesting mars

Dylflon · 07-24-2004, 02:37 AM

Beleiving abortion should be legal and not liking abortion are two completely different things.

GameMaster · 07-24-2004, 02:52 AM

From a scientific standpoint, I think this is exciting news.

As far as moral controversy, I think it probably is wrong but I don't object because we're raising millions of chickens and cows in little farms just to kill the for food. And that's wrong in my opinion. Raising animals just to kill them. And don't even try to argue that we need those farms because humans don't need beef or chicken to live. So as long as we continue to breed animals just for consumption, I say go ahead and bring on the human breeding.

bobcat · 07-24-2004, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameMaster

From a scientific standpoint, I think this is exciting news.

As far as moral controversy, I think it probably is wrong but I don't object because we're raising millions of chickens and cows in little farms just to kill the for food. And that's wrong in my opinion. Raising animals just to kill them. And don't even try to argue that we need those farms because humans don't need beef or chicken to live. So as long as we continue to breed animals just for consumption, I say go ahead and bring on the human breeding.

point taken and a good 1 @ that

Rumpelstilzchen · 07-24-2004, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampyr

To me that says something. Being a religious statement, I understand it wouldnt help solve anything scientifically, but I am a christain, and I take those words to heart. So is abortion murder? Even if it is still a undeveloped embryo? Yes. It is. Something that was once living is no longer living. It's not alive anymore, so therefore it is dead.

What do you think about Birth Control then? Abstinence, withdrawl, and condoms. You know the type, they teach that stuff in the Sex Ed (and on the street).

I don't remember being able to retain memory until quite awhile after I was born. Maybe that's the same with conscious thought?

But that's not your point, is it? Your point is that God knew people, what they would be like... and basically their fate before they were born. So, God would have to know that even before the sperm and egg were made... to know each part of the human. Then, do you suppose God would know what would become of the child? Like, if there would be an abortion, stem-cell research; or, in the case of abstinence and birth control... would he know before hand the condom or other form of obstacle that prevents the further development of the DNA, "human-to-be"?

That conflicts with human will though, so maybe that's what you're concerned with. Maybe human will is uncontrollable by God. That'd create a lot of conflict with any form of fate, however, as there are 6 billion people running the world. That's a lot of willpower. But to know people, God would know what kinds of decisions they would make. That, there, would give God some sort of control.

But, back to point. If human willpower is what defines something as murder rather than the path of fate designed by God... perhaps abstinence, then, is a form of murder. It could be in God's plan to create a human, and then he makes the sperm and the egg. Yet, even then, if the couple gets together... they could use a condom, which also stops the creation of a human.

Or... what if you believe birth control is not murder because a sperm and egg alone, though they may be in God's plan, are not a child until they unite. But what line separates an egg and sperm from its individual parts? Both have already gone under growth... they simply undergo even more growth when together. And it's still not solitary growth, it relies on the mother. So, perhaps a human is not it's own until birth? Then it'd be running off it's own steam (Aside from feed, of course).

That's not the only point to still consider, though. What if a human's only truly him/herself when it has conscious thought. If that's the case, it still wouldn't be murder if the child dies early in its life. And... eggs and sperm separate have no more conscious thought nor less potential to grow than a complete embryo.

The final thought? What if God does have the power to spin fate? If so, then perhaps it'd be God's will when an unborn human is used in stem-cell research, or aborted, or simply not conceived. It'd be God's will that people are cloned, for they too would have DNA and would have a growth period. But, for that to be incorrect, then any form of murder would be defined by human's will to stop lives. And that starts with abstinence, not just abortion.

As bonus connected thoughts...
.If you murder someone, and it's your will against God's, do you kill not just the person, but also the family tree?
.Is a miss-carriage God's abortion? What gives God the right?
.And if it is God's right... If someone is about to die from natural causes, and human will saves that person, is that also defiance against God's will?

manasecret · 07-24-2004, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameMaster

From a scientific standpoint, I think this is exciting news.

As far as moral controversy, I think it probably is wrong but I don't object because we're raising millions of chickens and cows in little farms just to kill the for food. And that's wrong in my opinion. Raising animals just to kill them. And don't even try to argue that we need those farms because humans don't need beef or chicken to live. So as long as we continue to breed animals just for consumption, I say go ahead and bring on the human breeding.

So cannibalism should be legal? Farming humans for organs should be legal? How far are you willing to take that argument?

Canyarion · 07-24-2004, 04:04 AM

The problem with these things is that we don't know the long-term effects. It could be the extinction of our race...

The worst things have been done with the best intentions..

GameMaster · 07-24-2004, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret

So cannibalism should be legal? Farming humans for organs should be legal? How far are you willing to take that argument?

Well, I don't think it should legal to consume a normal-born but if it was bred for the intention of eating like those cows and chickens, go ahead and let the people eat them who prefer cannibalism.

Until we stop the animal breeding for specific purposes, I'm fine with human breeding also for specific purposes. As far as the value of our life's, I don't consider ours to be any more than that of any other creature.

Happydude · 07-24-2004, 09:28 AM

frankly, i think that the women who want to abort should rather donate the unborn child to research...no point in wasting a life completly. if someone wants to abort, let them abort but not completly waste it.

ZebraRampage · 07-24-2004, 11:04 AM

I see it this way. I know that cloning can change the evolutionary way of life..but isn't it true that humans have evolved to have bigger brains giving them more intelligence than any other species? I believe that since this has happened we can't be stopped with what we do because our species will become more intelligent through the years. Of course it might be the end of us, but how would we stop it? You can't just stop at one period of time and say this is it, this is as far as we're going and an example of that is the amish. They still are able to live in this world, but now our world is about productivity, and everything is going faster, and it's all better quality, so what we do is just part of evolution in my mind. We're becoming more intelligent, and yes it will affect our world, and it could be for the worst, but that's what is going to happen, and I don't think we can stop it. I'm not saying that I like the idea of cloning..hell I don't know what I think, but I don't think that we can just say no to it. I hope that this makes sense, because I don't usually explain my opinoins very well..

manasecret · 07-24-2004, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GameMaster

Well, I don't think it should legal to consume a normal-born but if it was bred for the intention of eating like those cows and chickens, go ahead and let the people eat them who prefer cannibalism.

Until we stop the animal breeding for specific purposes, I'm fine with human breeding also for specific purposes. As far as the value of our life's, I don't consider ours to be any more than that of any other creature.

Are you serious? Are you really arguing this?

You can't be. That's the most moronic argument ever that it has to be a joke.

Because we're doing one bad thing according to you, why don't we just go ahead do another completely awful thing. Why not? Two wrongs couldn't be any worse than one.

That's slavery talk. That's almost Hitler talk.

thatmariolover · 07-24-2004, 04:07 PM

Meh. Scientifically it's interesting.

Morally, I have to say that embryos aren't capable of thought. The can't have a desire to live or die. They are incapable of sentient thought. Yeah, they might grow into people. But I mean, sperm might join with egg if you weren't using condoms.

It's all where you draw the lines. I'm perfectly comfortable with embryos being used.

Typhoid · 07-24-2004, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret

Are you serious? Are you really arguing this?

You can't be. That's the most moronic argument ever that it has to be a joke.

Because we're doing one bad thing according to you, why don't we just go ahead do another completely awful thing. Why not? Two wrongs couldn't be any worse than one.

That's slavery talk. That's almost Hitler talk.

Um. Its not Hitler talk. OR Slavery talk.

In a way, he has a good point (GM)

We breed animals and such for food, and for lab testng, why see it as a travesty when its with humans? Were all animals.

Cloning or stem cell research doesnt affect me, so im perfectly fine with it. Plus liking of new sciences and descoveries, i like the idea. It lets us learn and descover new things, and im all for that.