The Passion of Jesus Christ

[jeepnut]

Originally Posted by rottwylor

I honestly don't know if you understood me or not. I wasn't blaming the bible.. I was putting blame on religion and church, who happen to use the bible. And back then, people were so afraid of being heathens and blamed for heresy, that they would have gone to war in the name of God and the bible. No one wanted to go against church and state when it came to religion, and if you did...watch your back. For the matter of words being edited out of the bible.. I don't think it was a matter of being edited. The bible was hand written for centuries, the printed press only came to be a couple hundred years ago. So when you take a book.. rewrite it by hand ( LONG ASS BOOK AT THAT)... and then have to make copies by hand... and do it again... and again... and again... for YEARS... some things tend to get lost. It's like that game where you get a group of people in a circle, and one person whispers a phrase in the persons ear next to him, and when it gets back, the phrase is somewhat skewed. Also, man is a biased creature and likes to cut corners. I think for all intents and purposes, the bible is a postive thing. I just don't think it's being used right. As far as true christians? DON'T get me started on that..ANYWAY... this is about the movie that I won't see... so enough serious talk. WHO WANTS TO SEE ALIEN V. PREDATOR!!!

People back then were different than they are today. They didn't cut corners. These were sacred scriptures which they knew by memory, down to the last word. (You would too after copying them so many times.) Thus, they were able to check themselves. They wouldn't have alowed errors because they would have been ashamed to. The Bible has remained surprisingly accurate. Much more so than you give it credit for.

[rottwylor]

man is flawed today.. he was yesterday... and he will be today. unfortunately through the many different translations the bible went through from different languages (aramaic), there will be a loss in translation. It's a given, some languages don't have the same words that another language has, and will then have to compensate... then it gets translated again...and the same thing happens. I doubt that the people translating and transcribing the bible were flawless in doing so. Since we can't go back in time to check thier personal demons and integrity, we can't assume that they wouldn't allow any errors. So are opinions stay the same.. =)

[Koopa]

Here's the problem with the movie from what I've heard.

First of all, it was ONE jew who betrayed jesus, one of his apostles.

secondly, it was the ROMANS who killed jesus, not the jews

thirdly, only one out of the multiple gospels blames the jews for the death of jesus. in the 60's or 70s the Vatican 2 renounced its policy of blaming the jews for jesus' death. mel gibson's extremist point of view ignores this step forward and continues to blame jews.

from what i've heard, the movie has jews spitting on jesus, and has one jew actually punch him in the face.

fourthly, the movie was condemned by the Anti-defamation league as being anti-semetic

at a time when there's enough anti-semetism in the world as it is, with no sign of it decreasing, this movie is the last thing the world needs.

fifthly, apparently gibson associates some sickly, evil looking character symbolizing satan with the jews throught the movie.

mel gibson will not get a cent of my money, and the only way i will see this film is if i pirate it online.

[DimHalo]

you make an interesting point koopa... if all that is true, i'm sorrry to hear it... but i'll probably still see it

[Ginkasa]

I don't know. As much as there is a lot of Anti-semitiems in the world, there are a lot of people who make bigs deals out of small things.

There's been a review of a guy who was raised with Jewish people (it never said he himself was Jewish however) and that he didn't see anything anti-semitic about it.

You might want to see it yourself, Koopa, before you start listening to all of the people who spout off anti-semitism. Its like listening to all those soccer mom's who say Pokemon is Satanic and give all these "reasons" that are either not true or greatl exagerated.


*shrugs and walks away*

[DimHalo]

so many interesting points, i'll have to do a little of my own research about this...

[Blackmane]

In general nowadays, you can count on hearing the complaints on something more than the positive. I think the movie is going to be a good movie and, from what I hear, accurate to the Bible.

Of course the Jews are going to say its anti-semetic because they don't even believe Jesus to be what the Bible says he is. Anything having to do with the life of Jesus raises some arguement among some people because, in today's society, Jesus is one of the most controversial historical figures ever.

[fingersman]

Originally Posted by Koopa

Here's the problem with the movie from what I've heard.

First of all, it was ONE jew who betrayed jesus, one of his apostles.

I don't see a prob there, Judas betrayed Jesus.

Originally Posted by Koopa

secondly, it was the ROMANS who killed jesus, not the jews

Well again I don't see the problem there, the Jews did want to kill Jesus but it's the Roman soldiers that actually carried out the execution

Originally Posted by Koopa

thirdly, only one out of the multiple gospels blames the jews for the death of jesus. in the 60's or 70s the Vatican 2 renounced its policy of blaming the jews for jesus' death. mel gibson's extremist point of view ignores this step forward and continues to blame jews.

from what i've heard, the movie has jews spitting on jesus, and has one jew actually punch him in the face.

Well I wouldn't really say Mel Gibson is blaming anyone (atleast I would hope not) but no one can deny that the Jews played a major part Jesus's death, this is a fact.

Originally Posted by Koopa

fifthly, apparently gibson associates some sickly, evil looking character symbolizing satan with the jews throught the movie.

Well again I don't have a problem with this either, I don't know if you ever read the new testament, you'd would realise that the leaders of the religion laws and pratice were very ungodly, and if your not of God then obviously............

I don't know if you read your Bible or not but read the first 5 books in the new testament and then make your own judgement based on what you read and let that be the determinant of if you watch the movie or not.

[Canyarion]

+rep.

[Koopa]

Originally Posted by fingersman

I don't see a prob there, Judas betrayed Jesus.

yes..the problem is that gibson is carrying this guilt to the jewish people

Well again I don't see the problem there, the Jews did want to kill Jesus but it's the Roman soldiers that actually carried out the execution

according to one of the gospels. as far as i know, the rest of the jews thought he was just some new-agey teacher. but admittedly i haven't studied the story as much as i should have.

Well I wouldn't really say Mel Gibson is blaming anyone (atleast I would hope not) but no one can deny that the Jews played a major part Jesus's death, this is a fact.

i think showing the jews spitting on jesus, havin the jews throwing stuff at jesus, and having a jew smack jesus gives a pretty clear intention of where mr. gibson intends to place the blame

Well again I don't have a problem with this either, I don't know if you ever read the new testament, you'd would realise that the leaders of the religion laws and pratice were very ungodly, and if your not of God then obviously............

from what i've heard, apparently this "guy" isnt a jew...
the only thing i know about "ungodly" practices is alot of stuff about sacrifices. i think often a calf's blood would be sprinkled on worshippers, and wierd stuff like that.

on a cool side note...on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the High Cohen (preist) would enter the Holy of Holies where the tablet with the ten commandents were contained in the Temple before it was destroyed...and he would pronounce the true name of god, whatever that may be...

a story i heard is that the lesser preists would tie a rope around the high priest's ankle, so that, if god struck him down in the holy of holies, they wouldn't have to go in there to get him out, they'd just pull the rope

I don't know if you read your Bible or not but read the first 5 books in the new testament and then make your own judgement based on what you read and let that be the determinant of if you watch the movie or not.

unfortunaltely, i have not read teh new testament, although i've read and studied a lot of the tanach.

again. i will repeat for those that haven't understood this yet. i haven't seen the movie. i am basin my judgements on reports made by an organization made to combat racism, my own personal knowledge, and knowledge that i've read from various sources. judging from this, i can safely bet that this will be an unfair, extremist view of the events leading up to jesus' death. if they weren't, i'm relatively sure that they would be the mainstream views of the Church. however, they are NOT the views of the church. i think the vatican decided to abandon this biased view of jesus' death for a reason

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Oh, I'm sorry... every but the ADL said its not anti-semetic. My bad

your mean-spirited sarcasm is unnecessary

here's a quick counterpoint
http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movi...ion/index.html

http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/061303J..._Passion.shtml


we could sit here and post links about who says what all day, thats not the point.

don't get me wrong, i dont think gibson is being malicious, and i admire his faith...however, regardless of whether i agree or disagree with a belief, im afraid this movie could inflame the antisemitic minority.

[DeathsHand]

I figure I'll weigh in on this topic... I skimmed over the last page of the discussion and this is what I made of it...

Jew = Booo to this movie!
Other people = Lighten up...

So let me ask this question:
How many NON-jews do you have in YOUR cabinet, Koopa?

I'd rather just be all sarcastic and stuff than get involved in another religious debate...

[Koopa]

Originally Posted by DeathsHand

I figure I'll weigh in on this topic... I skimmed over the last page of the discussion and this is what I made of it...

Jew = Booo to this movie!
Other people = Lighten up...

So let me ask this question:
How many NON-jews do you have in YOUR cabinet, Koopa?

I'd rather just be all sarcastic and stuff than get involved in another religious debate...

An 18-page report sponsored by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Anti-Defamation League warned that the film, slated for release next year, could trigger increased anti-Semitism by reinvigorating the ancient Christian charge of deicide — that Jews were responsible for killing Jesus — which is believed to have caused the persecution and killing of Jews for two millennia.

Although you may not believe Gibson is being malicious or purposefully slaming Jews, you are condemning the movie before you've seen. See it before you start calling it anti-semitic. If you refuse to see it, don't bash it. It may very well be anti-semitic, but you have no right to call it that if you haven't seen it.

for the third and final time...i am basing my opinion on the information available to me seeing as IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO WATCH THE MOVIE YET. if i hear it is a good movie from reviewers when it is released in theaters, i guess i'll go see it.

[Ginkasa]

Groups that are trying to protect against racism and stuff like that are usually over-sensitive and some actually become prejudiced toward their race (as in, favorably; like this black guys was joking and said some racist remark [toward whites] and another white guy, joking along, said a racist joke [toward blacks]; white guy was sued; black guy went scotch free).

Anyway, the people against anti-Semitism are overly sensitive and probably exaggerating tons of stuff. It says in the CNN article, only one guy from ADL has actually seen the movie. And there have been several Jewish and Jewish supporters who say the movie is great (also in the CNN article).

Although you may not believe Gibson is being malicious or purposefully slaming Jews, you are condemning the movie before you've seen. See it before you start calling it anti-semitic. If you refuse to see it, don't bash it. It may very well be anti-semitic, but you have no right to call it that if you haven't seen it.

You say you're basing your opinion off of sources you've read, but you obviously haven't read enough. There are plenty of people who say it isn't anti-semitic, probably even more than what you can find considering that controversy sells more papers than not.

Listen to both sides of the argument. Don't base your opinion by just listening or paying attention to one side. Most of all: see the movie.


*shrugs and walks away*

[Canyarion]

Originally Posted by Koopa

...and he would pronounce the true name of god, whatever that may be...

JHWH.
'Jehova' or 'Jahweh'.

[Koopa]

Originally Posted by Canyarion

JHWH.
'Jehova' or 'Jahweh'.

well in effect you're right...but not really

the letters in the torah are yud hay vav hay, or yhvh...and i guess it got americanized into jhwh or jhvh..and i think thats how Jehova's witnesses got their name.

but the word is structured in hebrew without any vowels and in a way such that it indicates no gender. so it could be yah way or yehweeh or anything like that

Re: The Passion of Jesus Christ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeiss
Koopa, Jesus was looked upon as a criminal, that is why he was put to death. Prisoners were treated very, very poorly in those times, and it was common to "disrespect" them by abusing them. So, the Jews spat on him, who cares? It was what everybody was doing then.

I also believe that a common practice of putting a criminal to death was a public stoning.

Listen, I fear that all people are doing is getting riled up over nothing. The PUBLIC condemned Christ, according to the bible, and the PUBLIC happened to be jewish as there were only 12 Christians in the whole world at that time.

My feeling is that if you are going to get upset over this
movie, and the movie follows the Bible, then you should also get upset over the Bible. Its far easier to condemn a movie rather than a book of faith, now isn't it?

wow i never thought about it that way. i'm just afraid that moviegoers will not take things in context and not see people stoning a criminal, but jews killing jesus.

of course i don't believe in alot of the stuff in christianity, but i really hope i never implied that i wanted to condemn it. my personal belief is that whatever you want to believe that will make you feel spiritually satisfied, and will compell you to behave well on earth, couldn't be bad....as long as you don't hurt others in the process. the threat of this movie turning a story of sacrifice into a problem for jews is what scares me.


also erm...weren't most of the public "pagan" romans?

hey what is the term for the romans' religion anyway? greekism? romanism..? pagan sounds too negative.

I'm going to see it with my World Religions class as a field trip.

BTW... the controversy of this move just shows how easily society's opinions can be changed or how they can be offended over something stupid like a movie. IMO, that's kind of sad. Movies and music have too much control over what people do and think

movies are today's most popular form of entertainment. a hundred yeras ago when books were one of the most popular ways of spreading ideas, books like Uncle Toms Cabin sparked huge controversy, and noone thinks that that book had"too much control over what people do and think." the pamphlet Common Sense made revolutionaries out of many colonists, but noone thinks its sad that they were incited into discussing the issues.