Obama to brainwash youths of America

Vampyr · 09-03-2009, 05:10 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/200909.../ynews_pl888_3

Which should be more considered brainwashing: the President speaking to American children about staying in school, or parents wanting to filter what their children hear in order to try to limit their opinions?

The funny thing is that they don't really care that what he's trying to say is good, they simply don't like it because it will make Obama look good to their kids.

manasecret · 09-03-2009, 05:43 PM

He's a pedophile!

BreakABone · 09-03-2009, 05:51 PM

I wouldn't call it brainwashing, but I kind of agree with the folks who believe that the post-speech discussion, seems to be pushing the agenda in a more positive light no matter what he says.

I think its great to encourage discussion, but it should be up to the teacher or the school on how to held it.

Vampyr · 09-03-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BreakABone

I wouldn't call it brainwashing, but I kind of agree with the folks who believe that the post-speech discussion, seems to be pushing the agenda in a more positive light no matter what he says.

I think its great to encourage discussion, but it should be up to the teacher or the school on how to held it.

It is up to the teacher to show it or not.

KillerGremlin · 09-03-2009, 07:32 PM

It would have been a nice touch if he handed out the information in little red books or pamphlets.

I've always felt that the government should push for education, but as a very passive player. I feel that school should primarily be about education and promoting a positive learning environment; it should be unbiased and it should be honest. I think Obama's intentions are good if not grand (the man is from Chicago, he knows the train wreck that is Chicago Public Schools) so I support the administration's decision to be active in promoting education. Do I agree with this delivery method? Morally...no. On the other hand, what's the better alternative? American schools are slipping. We used to be number 1 now a whole bunch of countries have us beat. So if Obama can get kids to take an active interest in school, I say go-Obama!

Vampyr · 09-03-2009, 08:19 PM

I think the delivery method is perfect. The President is one of the few people that can say something, and everyone will listen, be inspired, and actually act on it. Especially kids.

I didn't complain (and I don't remember anyone complaining) whenever Bush gave his anti-drug speech to America's youth. Most kids don't care about politics at this point.

The thing is he isn't promoting himself or his administration at all. The people who are against it are only against it because it puts him in a good light. It's like they are admitting he is doing something good, and they don't want their kids to know he is worth looking up to.

Professor S · 09-03-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

The thing is he isn't promoting himself or his administration at all.

This is not accurate, and the administration even changed their original "curriculum" they sent out for the speech in recognition of this. I don't think people mind the idea of President Obama speaking to a nation of students. Many presidents have done this in the past, usually about the importance of school and/or drug abuse, etc.

What people are/were upset about is the orchestration of continued "Obama-centric" curriculum before and after the speech, such as essays about how they can help President Obama and the like. I believe one of the recommendations was to advise students to read his books, but I'm not certain. The materials have since been changed since the whole hubbub started.

The point is that the discussion should be about the topic President Obama is speaking on, not President Obama himself. It's this type of continued personal campaigning and politics of the individual that are inspiring so many to overreact and make claims that he is a fascist, socialist, megalomaniac, etc.

And now we hear that President Obama wants yet another prime time speech to talk about healthcare, and odds are the ratings are going to fall even farther than they did for the last one. He is quickly talking himself into obscurity. It has been my contention since his election that President Obama is great at campaigning for President, but he doesn't seem to know how to do much more than continually campaign, and I think he's is exhausting a lot of the good will with which he started his presidency.

Teuthida · 09-03-2009, 10:42 PM

American adults act like children and can't be reasoned with, so why not talk to the only ones who are acting their age. Makes sense. Might raise the intelligence level of this country in a generation or two.

I wasn't going to reply until I saw this article: http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dai...souri_town.php

Quote:

That didn't sit well with Sherry Melby, a teacher in the school district and mother of a band member. Yesterday Melby told the Sedalia Democrat: "I was disappointed with the image on the shirt." Melby said. "I don't think evolution should be associated with our school."

If that's a teacher's viewpoint, kids are going to have to learn to educate themselves.

Professor S · 09-03-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teuthida

American adults act like children and can't be reasoned with, so why not talk to the only ones who are acting their age. Makes sense. Might raise the intelligence level of this country in a generation or two.

Well, that seems to be the attitude this adminstration has regarding their constituency, I hope they continue. It's this type of arrogant dismissiveness that loses elections.

Quote:

If that's a teacher's viewpoint, kids are going to have to learn to educate themselves.

This isn't a new challenge by any means, and definitely not one this or any other administration will fix. Culture and social/religious norms are best left to evolve by themselves. Government can't "fix" a society, it can only reflect it, and when they attempt the former horrible things tend to happen.

Teuthida · 09-03-2009, 11:32 PM

How does one fix a society? I can't get over how backwards our country is in the sciences when compared to every other Western country.

KillerGremlin · 09-04-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teuthida

How does one fix a society? I can't get over how backwards our country is in the sciences when compared to every other Western country.

If it makes you feel any better, our country kicks the rest of the world's ass (for the most part) with college. So we have really really smart college kids.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ed...nment-tertiary

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ed...ary-enrollment

We have 7 of the best 10 universities in the States:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ed...rsities-top-10

31 of the top 100...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ed...sities-top-100

People in the US also spend most time in advanced education:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ed...hooling-adults

And as I am learning in my Psychological Testing class, the United State's college student does better/has a higher IQ/scores better on tests than the majority of the world.

So what we lack in Primary and Secondary education, students QUICKLY catch up when they go to college. So, yay!

Problems in Primary and Secondary education both involve poor curriculum, lack of strict testing, lack of enforced standards, No Child Left Behind, problematic financial situations (CPSs), and this bullshit positive stuff we feed kids: "everyone can go to college!"

NO. Some people are just dumb. We need to bring back schools that don't put down jobs in construction and encourage Johnny Low-GPA/IQ/Test Scores to do something he can apply himself in.

Professor S · 09-04-2009, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teuthida

How does one fix a society?

"One" doesn't and can't. One person can influence a society, but change cannot be imposed open an unwilling populace. The old cliche is that "transformative change takes place in small steps over time", and that is as true as any statement ever made.

We've seen significant steps forward in many cultural issues over the last century, but most of them were generational shifts, taking decades in total, not moments. It's best that way, because a long process is generally a thoughtful one, and a society can avoid many of the unintended consequences of immediate/rash action.

manasecret · 09-04-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor S

"One" doesn't and can't. One person can influence a society, but change cannot be imposed open an unwilling populace.

Tell that to President Bush about Iraq! Oh, wait, too late.

*Cue flaming*

Professor S · 09-04-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manasecret

Tell that to President Bush about Iraq! Oh, wait, too late.

*Cue flaming*

Actually, in hindsight I'd have to agree with this statement. I think the cultural challenges associated with winning the "hearts and minds" were greatly underestimated when it came to Iraq, reflecting our natural predisposition to assume other cultures share similar values. Now it looks like it's going to actually pan out (Afghanistan, not so much), but still Iraq tends to show this as a rule and not an exception to it.

And Teuth, that Jesus camp was not run or endorsed by Bush's adminsitration nor did it take place in public schools, and the Rep leader in Florida is not the President and leader of the free world, but this is besides the point. If a Republican president were to try to endorse himself through our schools, I'd be just as uncomfortable, and uncomfortable is all I am with this. It's a minor issue, but what I find funny is that it should never have been an issue at all because it never should have happened in the first place

Overall, I'm more of an active observer watching this Presidency continually make the wrong moves at the wrong time, and unknowingly helping to foment the entire "movement" that seems to be building against him, with utterly no understanding of how it's happening. So in not understanding, they dismiss it as simply political wrangling, and get themselves in even hotter water.

This is obliviousness at it's very worst, and by worst I mean best

. All jokes aside, our country has never been more fractured as I believe the two sides in conflict genuinely have no common ground whatsoever, and they genuinely have contempt for one another. This President was supposed to bring us together, but I think it's pretty obvious that his approach to law making and communicating in general has done the exact opposite. He is the leader oif our country, and in the end this is his failure, regardless of whether or not you feel there are "forces" working against him.

TheGame · 09-05-2009, 01:41 PM

I was going to argue with Prof, since I disagree with the last part of what Jonbo and Prof said.. How quickly we forget how bush would get democrats to vote with him be just acting like its an emergency.

I just want to say, though, that the democratic party is beyond weak. When the republicans had even a slight advangage in the house and senate under Bush, Democrats bowed their heads and reached out to try to help the republicans even though the republican representatives were not even trying to reach out to or mold any type of policy around anything any democrat would want.

And now that democrats can pass things without even having ONE vote from a republican representative.. they still act weak and try to reach out to get their approval even though its not needed. All the republicans are doing is trying to water down things like healthcare reform as much as possible, and when time comes to vote on it, they will still vote against it.

It really had boiled down to voting for the lesser of two evils when it comes to politics these days. Nothing Obama has actually done in his time as president can even be called 'progressive'. Hell I'd call him a conservative before I'd call him a radical any day, because he's actually not pushing for any real change. The only thing he's done well is handle forgien policy and help clean up the countries reputation with the rest of the world.

As Jonbo pointed out Media plays both sides of the story, and are not really in pursuit of the truth anymore. For example, If Sarah Palin complains about death panels being in the health care reform bill, then its just played as news... without people stepping in and saying its inaccurate. They're just like 'Democrats say there's no death pannels, some of these random people say there are death pannels.. ok on to the next story'... seriously?

I can't even watch mainstream media anymore these days without feeling ill.