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Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

I think most of the time, when Michael Moore is wrong on things, it happens. If he wanted something to be a lie, then thats his fault. But movies like Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11 mainly just open people's eyes and get them thinking.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

Thanks for the article Bond. Nice read.

The big problem with people who argue about Michael Moore is, while Moore does lie to make points they'll take the fact that he lied about some things to discredit everything else that's true about his movies.

Strangler, Let's say he did lie about the Saudis not being screened and about the thing with the Saudi royal family being the only plane in the air.

So, you've got two lies. Put those in your back pocket and perhaps you can bring them out and throw them at us again later.

Anyways, Taek a look at everything Moore says in the movie that isn't a lie. I'm not telling you to like Moore or even respect him. But just take a look at everything in the movie that isn't a lie. There's a lot of good stuff in there.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

This is a movie, this is not a documentary. It is meant to be entertaining. But the problem is, too many people take everything in there to be real facts. Some is, some isn't (sounds like a New York Times article)

Of course there are faults in the presidency. There always has been from the first.

If there was one thing people would do, it should be this:

never take all your facts from one source. moore isn't all correct, strangler isnt all correct (but seems to know more than I) Rush isn't, Shawn Hannity isnt, and MSNBC isn't.

Just makes you wonder what the documentary would look like that is directed by Rush Limbough. (if he knew anything about directing)

point is, just take this movie for what it is: A MOVIE - nothing else.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylflon

You're missing my point too. How can you distinguish what is fact and what is fiction if you know he blatantly lies? Why do I have to go out and do fact checking on a documentarian when he should be responsible for his own rediculous movies?

You even helped prove my point. When you saw the movie, could you distinguish the reality from fantasy, or are you willing to believe it all until someone showed you what was wrong? Don't you think there's a problem with that? Don't you think there is a problem with an Acadamy Award winning documentarian lying and manipulating and yet still being seen as some great truth telling muck raker?

If one thing is a lie, and another, then another... how can you trust ANY of it?

Oh, and here's another little fact I can put in my back pocket. One of the congressmen that Moore interviewed about having relatives in the military actually answered that he had a nephew in the military and another that was going to ship overseas. Moore excluded this response from the movie, and then denied it ever happened in the interview with Stephanopolous. Well thank god George has researchers becuase they actually found the raw footage and in fact the congressman does say he has family overseas in the military. Once again, the truth hurts Michael Moore.

Zaglar Ninja, do yourself a favor a leave this thread. You're only hurting yourself.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonbo298

movies like Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11 mainly just open people's eyes and get them thinking.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Strangler

Zaglar Ninja, do yourself a favor a leave this thread. You're only hurting yourself.

I don't know, right now he's making Typhoid look pretty good.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Strangler

Oh, and here's another little fact I can put in my back pocket. One of the congressmen that Moore interviewed about having relatives in the military actually answered that he had a nephew in the military and another that was going to ship overseas. Moore excluded this response from the movie, and then denied it ever happened in the interview with Stephanopolous. Well thank god George has researchers becuase they actually found the raw footage and in fact the congressman does say he has family overseas in the military. Once again, the truth hurts Michael Moore.

Zaglar Ninja, do yourself a favor a leave this thread. You're only hurting yourself.

ah, strangler is the man.... good ammunition for my girlfriend (who hates bush)

what did bush do to any of you guys, he's a lot smarter than anyone on these boards so just let him do his job.... if kerry gets elected, let him do his job... just let the president work for the love of pete!

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

They meantioned 1 congressman had family in the military a number of times.
kept saying, all but 1 had no children in the army.

or are we talking about a different one?

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

Here are more articles about the fabrications of Fahrenheit 9/11:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/op...ists/23542.htm

And again, I don't expect anyone to read these articles, so don't feel like you have to.

And I think this is what Strangler is talking about Null:

Quote:

A popular statement around MOOREWATCH from Mike’s fans is that there are no lies in F911. Tracking down all of Moore’s claims about financial dealings will take time. However, there is one easy-to-catch lie, and we all know about it already. Mike himself gave us the information needed to catch him in this lie.

In the film, Michael Moore confronts Congressional Representative Mark Kennedy and asks him to help get Congress to sign up their kids for the Army, Marine Corps, etc. Mark Kennedy looks at him funny, and there is a badly-placed jump edit right there. Moore then moves on to asking other members of Congress, who all appear to ignore him and walk away.

And then we get the voiceover:

“Of course, not a single member of Congress wanted to sacrifice their child for the war in Iraq.”

Look at that again. “Of course, not a single member of Congress wanted to sacrifice their child for the war in Iraq.”

Is that factually accurate? Let’s look at the exchange between Rep. Kennedy and Moore, which was provided by Moore himself:

CONGRESSMAN KENNEDY How are you doing?

MM: I’m trying to get members of congress to get their kids to enlist
in the army and go over to Iraq. Is there any way you could help me
with that?

CONGRESSMAN KENNEDY: How would I help you?

MM: Pass it out to other members of congress.

CONGRESSMAN KENNEDY: I’d be happy to. Especially those who voted for the war.

CONGRESSMAN KENNEDY: I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan.

MM: Because there is only one member who has a kid over there in Iraq.
This is Corporal Henderson, he is helping me out here.

CONGRESSMAN KENNEDY: How are you, good to see you.

MM: There it is, it’s just a basic recruitment thing. Encourage
especially those who were in favor of the war to send their kids. I
appreciate it.

CONGRESSMAN KENNEDY: Okay, bye.
Well, well, well. Look at that. Let’s look closely at this exchange.

MM: Is there any way you could help me
with that?

CONGRESSMAN KENNEDY: How would I help you?

MM: Pass it out to other members of congress.

CONGRESSMAN KENNEDY: I’d be happy to. Especially those who voted for the war.

This exchange was edited out of the film entirely, and instead Kennedy’s meeting with Moore is lumped in with all the Congressmen that seemed to be ducking him. Now that could be considered a lie of omission. He made Kennedy look like all the the Congressmen who didn’t stop.

Except that Kennedy not only spoke to him, but he offered to help. He has family in the military, on who, in Kennedy’s own words, is deployed. Not just enlisted, but deployed. He did not say where, but deployed has a specific meaning that doesn’t equal “one weekend a month” in the National Guard.

Cue the voiceover: “Of course, not a single member of Congress wanted to sacrifice their child for the war in Iraq.”

No matter how you try to spin that, it’s a lie. Moore himself admits that there is in fact ONE member of congress with a child in Iraq.

Is it a major, life-altering, call-your-momma lie? No, but most of Moore’s blatant lies aren’t. Stack a hundred of these little lies up, and you got yourself a movie though, don’t you? A sensationalistic campaign attack ad that purports to be 100% truthful.

Well, however minor, I’ve proven here that there is indeed one rock-solid lie in F911. And Moore’s own words, and the release of the transcript with Kennedy, make the case in a way that no one can deny without looking like a fool. Moore lied. Plain and simple. Kennedy was willing to help recruit Congressional member’s children. He has a nephew that is deployed as we speak. Moore himself admits that there is one other Congressional child serving.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

k k. just makin sure. :)

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

I listened to Michael Moore in an inverview talking about this movie... I would realy hate to give this clown my money. Just listening to him yap about how Bush should have reacted on the morning of september 11th disturbed me. He says it just exposes the truth, but from what little I have seen and heard him talk about it always sounds like he is trying to manipulate people into thinking his actions are wrong. (Or not what the president "should" do...)

Now I haven't seen the movie, and haven't read many of the other posts in this thread... but I think this is just a politicaly feuled movie that was made for the purpose of getting Bush out of office. I'm sure a film could be made to manipulate people into thinking every president we have had over the lase few decades were twisted.

I'll see the film just for the sake of knowing the content... But I doubt it will change my views coming into the next election.

I respect Michael Moore because he is a man who believes in somthing, and he is trying everything in his power to get the plublic to support him and his way of seeing things... Not many "rich people" are willing to do somthing as crazy as attack the president and make a film like this.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

I don't know how people got it in their heads that Moore wants this movie to strictly and solely change peoples views on the presidential election. Unless you can find me a quote that has him saying that.

How can a movie make you change your view?

But since Moore is blatently anti-Bush, its such a big deal to all the republicans everywhere.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoid

You would have to be blind not to see that this movie's intention is to change peoples views by making the president look bad. Moore can lie all he wants, but the reason he put this on film is to convince others of his views. If he didn't want to pursuade voters, he wouldn't have wasted his time making a movie like this.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoid

I don't know how people got it in their heads that Moore wants this movie to strictly and solely change peoples views on the presidential election.

Moore has said he wants this movie to change the presidential election, in favor of Kerry.

Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

lol! would he even of needed to say it?

come on, he's so heavily anti bush that you'd think he'd want bush to win again? of course he wants it to change peoples minds.

of course he might want bush to win so he can do a sequal :sneaky: